Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 51

Hi Gigi

I don't believe you have a grip on Covenant theology or Dispensationalism in regards to where they split.

Nor do you seem to understand what makes one qualify as Replacement Theology.

You stated "If I read Galatians you will know that Paul attests to the blessing of Abraham coming upon the Gentiles who have faith like Abraham along with Israelites who have faith like Abraham. (3:6-9; 14; 17; 22; 26;29.)

I don't believe there is anything in the book of Galatians that Covenant theology and Dispensationalist disagree on!!

Gigi I don't know if you are purposely doing this or not.

This has nothing to do with Genesis 22:18 or Galatians 3:16-29.

Those scriptures has nothing to do with the eschatology covenant promises to Abraham and the Davidic Kingdom!

You also stated;

We do not see ethnic Israel as any more special or preferred by God as any other people group.

Why did you feel the need to say that?

Gigi, Let's calm down and try to correctly hear one another.

I'm busy at the moment we will talk later.

Blessings.

Gerald

pt. 3

On down through the centuries, including the OT, God has always been faithful to this remnant chosen by election through grace.

And God has brought to faith in Jesus all who are of this remnant and will do so until it is time for Jesus to return.

But Paul said in Rom. 11:1-2 that God has not cast away His people (Israel) which he "foreknew" that is predestined for salvation. and He goes on to cite the account of despondent Elijah in his flight from Ahab and Jezebel where God assured this prophet of the remnant God had preserved for Himself who remained faithful-the 7000 men who had not committed idolatry.(vs.2-4)

In the remaining ch. 11 Paul goes on to describe true Israel as the natural, good olive tree that both believing Jews and Gentiles are grafted into. Paul also states that the blindness of unbelieving Jews is not necessarily permanent for those God did cast away for unbelief, indicating that more Israelites will be received and ingrafted again upon these being brought to faith in Jesus. But those who remain in unbelief are not part of the true Israel, though they are ethnically Israeli.

Vs. 26 does say 'And so, all Israel shall be saved." I understand this "so" to mean that "in this way" (Israelites who are brought to faith in Jesus since His resurrection and ascension and down through the centuries) will "all" Israel be saved. They will become members of Christ's body through faith and be ingrafted into the one and only people of God who have the "faith of Abraham".

Unbelieving Ethnic Israelites are not a people of God in addition to believers in Jesus being a people of God. But this does not preclude that throughout the centuries God does not bring salvation through faith in Jesus to many Israelites whom He foreknew. And this does not preclude a time when God will bring about a great ingathering of Israelites to Jesus by faith. That is my hope!

But I do not think that unbelieving Jews will be included as God's people. See Pt. 4

Gerald,

Pt. 2

Judaism is differs greatly from what God instituted upon Israel at Mt. Sinai. Judaism developed out of the 70 year captivity in Babylonian exile where there was not a temple for the priestly ordinances to be practiced. So, the leaders instituted the introduction of Rabbis and Synagogues in place of what was the ancient practices of Israel. This was out of necessity and was probably initially a good way for the Jewish captives to continue worshipping God even though the practices were knew to the religion. But over time, a great number of laws and practices were added to what God had had commanded of them. Jesus sharply criticized these traditions of men and the non-proscribed burden they placed upon the common Jewish people.

The changes that began in Babylon produced the Babylonian Talmud, which was considered sacred writing in addition to the Torah and Prophets (OT) even though God had not inspired the Talmud and other writings of the Rabbis. The addition of these traditions greatly corrupted the religion God had instituted at Sinai. These traditions produced the sects of Pharisees, Sadduccees, Essenes, and others within Judaism.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Judaism that continued from their is and has been the religion of the Pharisees.

Those who did and do practice Judaism observe the teachings of the Talmud as being equal to the OT. I do not think that this in any way pleases God. And, since most of those who are ethnic Jews today are secular and do not practice their faith with serious observance or faith in God, they are far from being examples of how people should serve and worship God.

Even so, this does not mean that God has forsaken Jews. In the first century, a remnant of Jews turned to Jesus through the true gospel preached by the apostles and disciples of Jesus, who themselves were of this remnant. God is faithful to this remnant, as Paul says in Romans 11:1-7. It is to this remnant that God is faithful.

Hello, Gerald

I trust that God will deal with ethnic Israel as He has planned to do since before creation. He saw fit that the nation of Israel was laid waste for nearly 2000 years and the Jews were divested of their temple, religious ordinances, land, etc from thence on. This was a very devasting and severe reckoning He brought to the Jews since the 1st century.

The land of Israel has been controlled by other dynasties for this long time period until the British Mandate once again established the land of ancient Israel as a national home for the Jews, which began in 1948. This nation has had such difficulties with its Islamic neighbors ever since. Which I find disturbing and sad. I pray for peace for this nation and that those who act against Israel's current existence will be brought to a place of acceptance and peace with Israel. I hate the terrorism that affects Israel and the people that live near Israel. I support Israel's right to continue to exist because of the Balfour Declaration since Britain had control of the Middle East/Palestine at that time.

The Jews are just a small portion of ethnic Israel and those in Israel now are a very small portion of the Jews worldwide. The Jews in the U.S. outnumbers those who now reside in Israel (approximately 7.5 million - 6.5 million) yet, in the U.S. the Jews are 2.4% of the population, which is a small number compared to the 350+ million U.S. population. Worldwide, the Jews are a small portion of the over 7 billion alive today. So they are truly outnumbered in many ways.

Politically, Israel is an ally to the U.S., and so I am in support of my country aiding Israel in their fight to fend off terrorist aggression which is an ever-present danger for those who live in Israel, whether Jews or not. But in a spiritual sense, Jews in Israel are mostly secular and non-religious. They do not as a whole follow the Old Testament diligently. Judaism is very different from what was instituted by God upon Israel at Mt. Sinaii

Rev.15.5 Tabernacle of the testimony

"And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:"

This ark is the tabernacle of God among men whivh is the Father Son relationship leading everything else in heaven and on earth to. If it can be set in terms of the year and day basis we have 'now' as the day of salvaton and all days here on earth are like iron filings to the eternal magnet,-holiness of God.

This tabernacle to which we have several arks in the Scripture allued. Baby Moses in an arrk is as the bread cast in the river origin of which is Eden.(Gen.2.10;Eccle.11.1-2) Second instance is the Ark of Noah. This tabernacle of testimony was opened

when God set the body before his throne as a pledge for the body, for which we have an emblem of the Lamb slain. The 24 elders thus testify,"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."(Rev.5.10) What earth are they referring? The preceding verse 5.9 "And they sung a new song, saying, for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" It is new earth.

Now we have another verse to indicate where thy are kept.

The seven angels come out of the temple,"And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."(15.6.8) The order comes from the temple/ throne and the altar is in mid-air,"nd the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." The great voice from the throne belongs the Word which was with God. The body, the horses, and every thing referring to the natural world is of Jesus Christ consist."all things were created by him, and for him.(Col.1.16-17)

We are made perfect because we are in Christ and it's his righteousness, if we have repented and been baptized in his name for the remission of sin and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost born of water and spirit the blood comes with the name.

Thank you Chris as well and the opportunity to share some scriptural insights! I appreciate your time and thoughts ! As we all are learning from God , it takes time and study through the Holy Spirit . In Jesus most precious name !

Rev.8.5 "The elect" (3 of 3)

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

Here we have a sequence as to the word of God sent forth: voices and it is a warning. "While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."(Heb.3.15; Ps.95.7-8) The now is day of salvation and the gospel prached has their own period of time as in the case of the four angels that were prepared in Rev.9.15. In the will of God these seven anagel preparing to sound indicate the consequence of rejecting the Word become flesh. As with the year of the lord is in lockstep with the day decreed for the Lord the wrath of the Lord shall manifest itself with an earthquale. Yhis is mentioned from the three POV. Consider the verses,"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;"(6.12) second is in the key verse. Third instance is ,"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand." (11.13) and finally,"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake." (16.19) These earthquales are pendent to the death of his Son on the cross.'The earth did quake.' (Mt.27.51) Consequences of seven angels sounding the duration throughout the Acceptable year of the Lord.

An intimation of His displeasure we have at the thundering, "And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud." Compare the expression,in v.18)"And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it... and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly" Cf. Rev,9.2

Greeting's

Matthew 15:3

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

Matthew 5:19

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

1 John 2:27

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Blessings

Greeting's

Exodus 20:8

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Exodus 20:9

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"

Exodus 20:10

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

John 14:21

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

1 John 2:4

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Blessings

Hello Sarahirena and thanks for your question. I'm unsure whether your question on the keeping of the Sabbath Day is simply for understanding what Israel was required by God to do on that day, or whether, you are wanting to observe that day yourself and enquiring about what was permissible. So, I'll assume the first, and give you some Scriptures for you to read on the subject.

Exodus 34:21 (no work in the fields); Jeremiah 17:21,22; Amos 8:4,5 (not carrying any load and doing business); Exodus 16:28-30 (not to leave the precincts of the home); Exodus 35:2,3 (light no fires/no cooking); Numbers 15:32-36 (no gathering of firewood). These are some of the restrictions placed on the children of Israel; if they disobeyed, as the man gathering sticks did, it meant death. Very harsh punishment, but that was what the Law demanded, requiring strict obedience to God.

And when the Jewish leaders (the Pharisees and Saducees) came on the scene during the second temple period (i.e. after the Persian king Cyrus began to release the Jewish captives back to their homeland & helped in the building of this temple), these 'new' religious leaders began to add many laws & regulations to the existing Laws given by God to Israel. And it was these leaders that accused Jesus and His disciples for picking and eating corn from the fields on the Sabbath Day (which was not lawful to do). But Jesus explained ( Mark 2:23-28), that the Sabbath day was given for man's benefit and not the other way around. So, if you are hungry, then you are entitled to 'work' by picking or purchasing food to satisfy your need, even though the Letter of the Law prohibited it.

So the Sabbath Day (with the other 9 commands, plus many others) were given to Israel so they might have a day of rest from their hard labors in the field, etc and be refreshed for the next six days work. And this Day was "holy" because it was 'set apart' from the other days. And these commands were for Israel - not given to the Church.

" In the night he was betrayed He took bread and gave it to His disciples":

A curious juxtaposition of words in my thinking . But speak of Gods unwavering will and Love to his disciples in particular and to mankind in this case in general .

For when the Lord extended his arm and dipped his bread into the stew and offered it to Judas it was an act of friendship even honour showing that despite all the Lord was not going to change His way .

In the night that he was betrayed he took bread the night of the greatest betrayal was also the time of the deepest fellowship .The prevailing circumstances of grief and sorrow wouid not ,couid not and did not change His attitude and love to his disciples . "Having lived them He lived them to the end"

No matter what we may go through the Lord will never leave us or forsake us and that fellowship in the Spirit cannot be broken .

So let us gird ourselves putting on the whole armour of God knowing that He who started a good work in us will also finish it.

And quit ourselves not as " mere men":but they who know their God and can face the world with courage fortitude and an unshakable faith iq God bith for the oresent and future .

Sometimes a question has to be constructed right if you want a right answer .

For some questions are so open ended or open to interpretation as to what is asked no answer will answer it ,or / and it will simply produce more questions .

Luther's heaven sent revelation of understanding " the just shall live by faith" was to all intents and purposes the first shoot of the seed of the church buried under Romes oppression and ignorance of God .

But as that shoot comes out from under the earth there is always earth sticking to it .

Antisemitism was (and still is propagated) by Rome Given his Luther's history I'm not surprised . But despite his errors does not detract from that first ray of light .

Calvin extended the work . But each succeeding revelation was thought to be the whole who like Peter then began to teach the Lord when He began to give more light . Every denomination has thought the same and said " let us make a name for ourselves ." And God has had to find men outside of it to further HIS work.

The Baptist's were persecuted by the Calvinists . Wesley was rejected when he brought sanctification . The then Quakers were persecuted by the 'established' church it has been that way from the beginning.

But the Work of of God has continued .For " I will build MY church " said the Lord .

Each denomination keeping to its traditions and holding to its revelation has forgotten that God has a progressive purpose and like the ear of corn that rises up inside the stalk of wheat so too the bride of Christ .

And she too will be persecuted despised and rejected and her enemies will be "of her own household" Rome is reasserting herself positioning herself where she thinks she ought to be at the head of the table .

The new pope will deceive many. Especially those who have already got into bed with her .

And the followers of Islam are already betrayed by their leaders.

But it is written of the Lord " in the night He was betrayed he took bread ." The night of the greatest betrayal was also the time of the deepest fellowship . And did He not spread a feast for us before our enemies?

Modification"

The first paragrah is to be read us:

"These angels four in number are associated with the waters, with fire with the harvest and now for gatherin sheaves,-with four ends so east west, north or south and notice it is from one end of heaven to the other? This explains the significance of the elect and their camp is on the mid-air waiting for the the first fruits on mount Sion to descent. This elect are the 144,000 sealed before the 'great' tribulation Rev.7.1."

Thanks.

Mt.24.27-31 "His Elect" (2 of 3)

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

These angels four in number are associated with the waters, with fire with the harvest and with four ends so east west, north or south and notice it is from one end of heaven to the other. This explains the significance of the elect and their camp is on the mid-air waiting for the the first fruits on mount Sion to descent. This elect are the 144,000 sealed before the 'great' tribulation Rev.7.1

Just before the seven angels come in we see th 'another angel' who is the angel of the Lord,"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne." (Rev.8.3). Angels mentioned in 10.1 and 19.16 belong to the same order. They are the word which was with God, meaning they are ministering angels for heirs of salvation and deputed by God.

"This another angel' with the golden censer is a signal as to what understand the role 24 elder play.: Firstly they signify the surety God has set before him. They are the mediator between God and men so the golden censor is metonym for the word become flesh. "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."(5:8) Before the risen Christ would commission his disciples (Mt.28.20) these elders affirm,"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." It is thus we have the elders and thefour beasts as a memorial that shall never be repudiated.His calling and gifts are irrevocable. So our prayers are heard, surely. "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar' (Rev.8.5)

Tell me ,does God need rest?

And is it not written that " we are to rest from our works as God did from His"

Which puts things on a completely different level .

In another place Jesus pointed out that the priests broke the sabbath in the temple but were guiltless .

Is it not written that in Christ " we are made kings and priests unto God"?

It is also written that "if one man esteems one day holy unto the Lord and another esteems all days alike let each be fully persuaded in their own minds " and by implication be at peace with God and with each other .

Anything else is but the flesh striving .

It is foolish to try and work out the day of His coming .

God has " strived" with man since Caine ! But " He will not always do so . God strived with the Jews since Ishmael .

You might argue with Lot also who had to be practically forced out of Sodom .and still argued afterwards.

In the days of Noah who preached righteousness fir 125 years to his generation who neither listened or took heed to the warnings .God always sens warnings before disaster and the nearer to it the more severe the warnings .

The Jews rejected the zFather in the Old Testament . They rejected the Son in the gospels and they rejected the Holy Spirit ( but not all) in the book of acts . They have suffered the consequences of doing so ever since .

But the Holocaust might in the light of what is going to happen to the gentiles become to be seen as a great mercy . For thec" "time of the gentiles" is drawing near and given the example of the Jews have no excuse at all .

The gospel has been preached not fir 125 years but for 2000 years and the message for the hour is now for the Bridevto get herself ready . The Lord will not always strive with man . That applies on a personal level as much as it does with nations and Man overall .

" Behold I stand at the door and knock":says the Spirit to the church.

That knocking is a call to the whole church . The promise however is only given to those who " have ears to hear and porn the door" even as John 3:16 is a call to the whole world to repent but the promise is only to those who do .

What Isreal is is a part fulfilment of the promises of God in the last 2/3 chapters of Deuteronomy . They are not just one of many nations they are destined to be " the head not the tail "of all the nations.

All Jews in spite of themselves and which includes the State of Isreal represent an unbroken line and witness to the Law and Prophets of Almighty God .

Undoubtedly they need to be saved and are as lost as any gentile and can only be saved through Jesus Christ .

Every 'solution' that has ever been tried is to break that line ( back to Abraham) and destroy that witness by every means possible for that would prove that God does not exist and His Law does not matter .

But despite everything the Jews hold up the Old Testament as the Word of God true in ever6 respect as well as being their history . Which is extraordinary because that' history 'and record going back into recorded history as far back as Abraham and by him to Noah and by him to Adam and thus a record of Man's roots shows their failures ,their sins ,Gods judgements etc . Yet still maintain it is the truth . This is not like the world which puts its best foot forward and does not parade its failures .or faults .( British included) who once was the head of all the nations but is now fast becoming the tail .

" Oh how the mighty have fallen"

The reason why there is so much antisemitism is founded upon that fact .and in direct proportion to the worlds rebellion against God will be the rise of antisemitism .

It is not they who have made it so . But God who has made them and will keep them to the end not because of their righteousness but because of His forHe is faithful to His Word .

He has also made them and the State of Isreal a direct challenge to all of Islams spurious and vain assertions . The Middle East wars are not political problems but theological ones .

For the 'god'' of Islam thay call ' Allah' is not the God of Abraham if it was there would be little or no problem there .

Thanks Meek and seek for your further comments. I think we have adequately shared our views on what we believe the first day of the week is, as given in the Bible. Blessings.

Mt.24.27-31 "Eagles"( 1 of 3)

"For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."(v.28) We shall compare it with is already stated."And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."(Rev.19.21)

Jesus in his discourse over the end times warned his disciples and it applies in our case as well. The heresy of sects also extends to eschatology, which is farther from truth. For example St Paul refers "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid." (Rom.6.1-4) A Russian sect Khlysty literally devoloping on these created an occasion for debauchery to which the name of Rasputin stands pre-eminent. He was a celebrity as we have similar rogues preaching another Christ and another gospel.

After the beast and his false prophet are sent to perdition we have an angel in the sun,"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;"(19.17) The carcase are the slain and the sun referred here is a sign. In the Covenant we read of two great lights provided for under day Four. The word sets Angel of the Lord associated with the Word was God. Thus we have the Word of God as the King of Kings, the angel of the Lord, the Word which was with God. Invitation is to all the fowls that flies, notice the expression, 'in the midst of of heaven. It is a direct reference to the four living creatures in the inaugural vision o Ezekiel.

In Rev.4 St John sees the single measurement the throne representing the Word, the four beasts 'represeting the eagles or over comers' and himself as the man. "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel." The 24 elders and four beasts together make up the body.

"And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Here we have four periods of time in which the day and the year refers to the Father relationship. Months and hour relate to Jesus in his relationship to the nation of Jews and the Gentiles.

This is your hour as in this verse,"When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness."(Lk.22.53)

We have an instance of the months with regards to the outer darkness, "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." (Rev.11.2) We are shown the beast in Rev.13.1 and in v.7 "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(v.5) Notice this beast is given power from the devil to continue meaning that it the eight beast, an unclean spirit, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."(Rev.17.11) Perdition is narrated in the ch.19.20: "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

His arrival onto the world stage, yet to manifest itself continues from the little horn mentioned in the fourth beast in the night vision of Daniel Ch.7

Year and day is set lockstep with Father Son relationship. Jesus is word become flesh. What of Ezekiel whom God calls 'Son of man'? "and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year."(Ezek.4.6) Ezekiel serves as the double for Jesus.(Ezek.3.1-4)

S. Spencer,

I, too, could say much more on this to you, but I do not think it will be fruitful because we come from opposing approaches to what Scriptures reveal about God's people, what God promised to His people beginning with Adam and into the church age, which includes the promises to Abraham.

You see these promises to Abraham as being completely earthly in nature, but covenant/reformed believers see these earthy promises as the type of what God's people receive in Christ, which is the inheritance of true Israel, the antitype, which are spiritual in nature.

I know that you do not think along the lines of covenant reformed theology. But there is no anti-semitism in this theology. We do not wish to eliminate ethnic Israel, persecute them, or to treat them with malice. But we do see them as one ethnicity among a multitude across history who need salvation in Jesus in the same way and without this salvation by faith, they are lost, judged as NOT Israel by Scripture unless or until, as individuals they repent and turn to Jesus in faith for salvation.

We do not see ethnic Israel as any more special or preferred by God as any other people group. Yet we do see that ethnic Israel was chosen by God to be the repository of God's revelation in Scriptures, and as the genetic line that will bring forth the Seed promised in Gen. 3:16. who is the Messiah, whom they rejected at that time. Jesus said the the kingdom would be taken from that generation of Jews and given to a people that would bear fruit unto salvation. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish religious rites and the scattering of the Jews in 70 A.D. was the judgement of God upon that unbelieving, stiff-necked generation of Jews. From 70 A.D. on, ethnic Israel was cast out, with the exception of those throughout the centuries who turned to Jesus in faith.

You may think that this is equates as "replacement" of Israel. But it truly is not. It is what the NT Scriptures and the words of Jesus teach.

S. Spencer,

Let me be clear, I do not hold to Replacement Theology because Paul is clear that gentiles are grafted into Israel, not replacing it. But those of faith are of Israel, not ethnic Israel, unless one is a believer.

When people refer to "true Israel" this does not make them adherents to Replacement Theology. You error in this statement.

When I or others who ascribe to covenant theology speak of "true Israel", first and foremost, we are speaking of Jesus Christ, the Seed of promise to Abraham as Paul says in Galatians 3:16. If you read Galatians you will know that Paul attests to the blessing of Abraham coming upon the Gentiles who have faith like Abraham along with Israelites who have faith like Abraham. (3:6-9; 14; 17; 22; 26;29.) So, Covenant theology attests that God has always and only had one people, chosen by election, throughout history. This is NOT Replacement Theology from a biblical standpoint.

To a dispensationalist, it may SEEM like Israel is being replaced by the church. But this is because dispensationalists insist that all of ethnic Israel is true Israel, children of the promise to Abraham. But Paul says differently, as I have shown in previous posts.

From my understanding of dispensationalism is that unbelieving ethnic Israelites are always the people of God, but Scripture state many places in the OT as well, that those who do not continue in belief are cut off from His people, as Paul reiterates in Rom. 11:15. In Gal 4:28 Paul says that believers (both Israelite and Gentile) are children of the promise to Abraham, just as Isaac was.

When one who espouses that across time God has continually called those whom He elected to have faith and receive redemption through the blood sacrifice of Jesus, whether OT or NT, whether Israelite or Gentile, from every nation tribe and tongue and attest that these are His one people, the Israel of God that receive this designation by faith, not by physical birth, they are agreeing with Paul!

Gigi.

Part 2.

Replacement Theology.

Here's why it matters and why these particular promises is was not fulfilled in the Church.

The church was never brought out of Egypt and promised a land here on earth with the tabernacle of David being restored with this action being a spectacle for all the world to see to glorify God.

Just a few of many Examples;

1) Ezekiel 36:23-24 "And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

2) Jeremiah 16:14-15"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

3) Isaiah 48:11-12 "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Is the Church also the new Jacob?

In the book of Esther we see a clear demonic plot to annihilate the Jewish people through Haman,

In Ezekiel 38:12-19 we see a demonic force of Gog of Magog.

In Revelation 12:13-17 we see where the dragon persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The woman here is Israel not the Church!

Throughout history Satan has tried to annihilate the Jews. Ethnic Israel!

This would destroy the promises of God and attack his name.

Today it's done with Replacement Theology.

It's getting late but I have much more to say on this.

Good night.

I'm curious if anyone has looked over the Messiah2030 Project to a point where they came to the same conclusion I did being this.

God will not contend with man more than

120 years

Jubilee= 50

1 Day = 1000 years

7 Days of Creation = 7000 years timeline

Jesus waited 2 Days (risen and Lazarus)

Jesus will raise us after 2 Days

IF the year of His death is correct, this is hard to deny.

30 AD + 2 Days = X

30 AD + 2000 years = 2030 AD

Hi Gigi

Part 1

I am familiar with Reformed/Covenant theology. .

I agree with some of the covenant theologist views however on their eschatology is where we part ways drastically.

Also covenant theologist has some

dispensationalism tenants in it in the way grace was administrated over the covenants.

Same Lord, Same savior!

Different economies.

One administration pointed fowards the other pointed backwards.

One foreshadowed the other.

Covenant theology holds an amillennialist view, believing the millennial kingdom is symbolic.

That's where we draw the line!

As for the accusation.

Gigi when did I say non-dispensational views of Israel and the church is from the devil?

Here's my direct quote;

Replacement theologist can be linked to paving the road for antisemitism!

This is Satan at work!

He's been trying to wipe out the Jews since the beginning.

End quote.

Gigi if you are saying those who have non-dispensational views and those who hold Replacement theology views are the same then you are agreeing you are a Replacement Theologist.

Replacement Theology definition.

Replacement theology, or supersessionism, is the belief that the Christian church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people, inheriting God's promises and covenant roles originally given to Israel due to Israel's rejection of Jesus as Messiah. This view holds that God's covenant with the Jewish people ended with their disobedience and that the Church is now the new inheritor of God's redemptive plan, often interpreting biblical promises to Israel as spiritual ones for the Church.

This makes God a liar concerning his promises to Israel.

Anytime someone say "The True Israel" That has replacement written all over it!

See part 2.

Hello my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus!

I had a thought... maybe a clarification is needed. The bible talks about how God took six days to create everything and rested on the seventh. I understand that man should keep the sabbath day holy, but what is considered work? Cleaning? Cooking? Are doing those on the sabbath considered not keeping it holy?

S. Spencer

Pt. 2

Maybe some dispensationalists accuse Reformed/Covenant theology of "replacement theology" because they do not understand what Reformed/Covenant theology actually teach. They do not tach replacement theology. You can easily find that out if you check out reformed articles on this topic.

I do not know why you brought up replacement theology in your post, but I want you to be properly informed about how your use it erroneously.

Also, as you continued in your post it seemed that you think that holding a Reformed/Covenant theology viewpoint will inevitably lead to anti-semitism. This also is a fallacy. This is not to say that anti-semitism in the church hasn't been or is not now a problem, because it is, and we should speak against it. However, we truly need to correctly identify what anti-semitism is.

And believing that there is only one people of God across all time as those who believe as Abraham does is not anti-semetic.

Then to go on and intimate that those who adhere to non-dispensational views of Israel and the church is from the devil is also uncalled for on this forum.

Maybe I have misunderstood you and welcome you clarifying what you truly meant. But I think that instead of speaking insults labels and mischaracterizations of those who differ in theology than you is wrong.

I am not trying to get into a debate nor an argument with you. I consider you and friend in the Lord and am speaking to you from that point of view.

Let's keep this civil and respectful.

Hello again S. Spencer,

I realize that we differ in how we view whom God's chosen people are.

And I do not wish to discuss this aspect again here as I did explain my view in the posts I submitted earlier.

But to state my view: I believe the Scriptures teach that there always has and will be one people of god-not two.

And I believe that this people are all from Adam up to now and into eternity those who live by faith as Abraham did who saw Jesus' day and rejoiced. The people of God are all who God elected to salvation in all times. And the way anyone enters this communion is by believing God in Christ's person and work of redemption.

In the OT, it is true that the nation of Israel was formed by God to be His covenant people. Yet we read in the NT that those who are truly Israel are those who have faith in the gospel and in Jesus. the NT clearly teaches that not all who are Israel by fleshly birth are of the Israel of God and neither are they necessarily inheritors of the promises given to Abraham. Unbelief identifies these ethnic Jews as being offspring of the bond-servant Hagar and non-heirs as Ishmael was. But those who believe as Abraham believes are children of the promised one-Isaac and are heirs of the promises. so any Israelite who is justified by faith in Christ is of true Israel. Likewise, as Rom. 9-11 and Galatians clearly teach, gentiles who are justified by faith in Jesus are also of true Israel, being in-grafted into the cultivated olive tree (true Israel) and both Israelite and Gentile believers constitute the one true covenant people of God.

That said, S. Spencer, this is not "Replacement Theology". It instead correctly understands the prophecies and promises of the OT prophets that both Israel and Gentiles are of the people of God.

When dispensationalists throw out the "replacement theology" card, as you have, it is usually intended to discredit or dismiss what one who aligns with Reformed or Covenant Theology. See pt. 2