Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 53

Dan.7.1 "Four" (2 of 4)

Why Four gospels? Four aspects of God necessitate the Fellowship of God with Man state in terms of man who is the recipient of divine blessings. Covenant of seven days is everlasting that means there shall be one other.

The Word was God, the Word was with God the Word become flesh and the fourth aspect is Jesus Christ the Son of man who is the embodiment of the Law of the Spirit reconciling heaven and the earth unto himself. "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."(Col.1.20). The Command number 4 when set into life of man is in multiples of tens. All flesh is set under the law of sin and death and is set against the Spirit. God said, my spirit shall not always strive with man,' for that he also is flesh'. When the Son is sent to the world the word does not change it meaning or emphasis. Before he began his ministry "And was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,/Being forty days tempted of the devil."(Lk.4.1-2) Similarly before the risen Christ would receive a kingdom he was seen by his apostles 'Being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:"( Acts 1.2-3)

This serves as a book end to Moses before he would receive the Decalogue,"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights." (Exod.34.28) The word sent forth makes a full circle so the Word is perfect converting the soul."His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."(Ps.19.6-7)

The Holy Spirit also speaks of ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for heirs of salvation. "behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea."(Dan.7.2) and "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth."(Rev.7.1;Heb.1.14)

Gen.6.3 "120 years" (1 of 4)

"nd the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

In order to understand the significance of the 120 years we need examine the genealogy of Adam in the preceding chapter. There it is about the generation of Adam. God the Father sets 12x10 in terms of years.God anointed his Son to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Here in the key verse he pronounces judgment on account of the mixed multifude of sons of God. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."As a bookend we have a mixed people in the outer darkness. The difference of two cities tagged by 144000 and 18,000 is very significant indeed.(Ezek.48.35;Rev.21.16)

Here God is setting the law concerning flesh and the spirit to which St Paul supplies commentary in the epistle to the Romans."I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."(Rom.7.25) Here Paul refers to the risen Christ meaning he is the embodiment of the Law of the Spirit. Jesus Christ is the same,(Heb.13.8) so the gospel of God by death and resurrection becomes gospel of Christ. St Paul by the way is not set apart by another gospel as some one posted in this forum from his dispensational view point.

Here God sets the Law of God on the basis of the gospel of God in terms of years while in terms of the word become flesh it law of sin and death. In order to explain the role of the numbers in the narrative here are some hints:

God sent forth his word thatshall never return to him in void. Thus number Four informs us it is same east west north or south.

In the beginning was the Word which is God. In the Father Son relationship the Word which was with God so 4x3 gives us 12. Jesus began his ministry with 12 disciples and what he presents on the mount was the gospel of God

Hello S. Spencer,

Thanks for your reply.

I have studied Galatians carefully and Paul lays out very pointedly that true believers are Abraham's seed, children, heirs and the true Israel of God. No where does Paul state that ethnic Israel is the inheritor of the promises and covenant made to Abraham. He explicitly states that ethnic Israel is of the bondswoman Hagar and her son Ishmael. Paul is saying that those who are Israelites after the flesh (born as such) ARE NOT part of the blessed seed of Abraham, rather Jesus is the promised Seed and all who believe, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all OT remnant believers, are, by the fact that we are in Christ, are also the ONLY legitimate seed of Abraham.

In identifying ethnic Israel with Ishmael, Paul is teaching that, except for the elect remnant, Israel is "cast out" as Hagar and Ishmael were.

Galatians 6:15-16 tells us who the Israel of God is-only those who are new creations in Christ. I do not think this verse is speaking of two groups of people, as you state, because this whole epistle is written to show that there is one people of God-the true Israel of God-all who are brought to faith in Jesus, the promised Seed and heir of the covenant promises to Abraham, which are not literal, earthly promises, rather spiritual, heavenly promises of the New Covenant. The literal earthly promises are a "type" pointing to the true "antitype" which are all of the real, actual, spiritual promises believers inherit in Christ by faith.

I know we have conversed on this before, so it seems we have both presented our understanding of Paul's doctrines laid out in Galatians. May the Lord bless all who read what Lbooth, you, and I have written with correct understanding of God's truth given through Paul.

While it is true 'Meek and seek' that Sunday is never called the Lord's Day in the Bible, it is also true that the Sabbath is never referred to as the Lord's Day either - it has always been the Sabbath Day or the seventh day. This was the LORD's day of Rest (His ceasing of the Work of Creation) and thus enjoined His chosen people that they should do likewise.

And yes, the early Church first met in the synagogue on the Sabbath, but then began to meet in homes on the first day of the week as they came to break bread together ( Acts 20:7). So, if we must reject Sunday as the Lord's Day, we must also do to the Jewish Sabbath Day, for then neither conclusively prove its definition and practise. GBU.

Indeed, so true, George M. And many more declarations in the Word, that men and science have subsequently 'discovered'. But carnal men will continue to reject & spurn the God of Creation and His Wisdom, preferring to revel in their own powers of logic and reason. Romans 11:33.

You're welcome Gigi.

Galatians 6:15-16 is a often misunderstood and is easily straightened out if read carefully.

I have mentioned this before. There are two groups mentioned in those two verses.

Here is how it's broken down.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a "NEW CREATURE."

(New creature) That's one of the two. It's the church!

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, (Paul is speaking of the same group, The new creature. THE CHURCH!

Here's the second group.

and upon the Israel of God.

Blessings.

Thank you brother, well explained. Indeed, we see God's Wrath over the millennia against rampant sin in the world, even as we observe tribulations and sufferings that come to us all and particularly to so many throughout the world suffering with hunger, disease, natural calamities, and wars. These, God permits to continue awaiting that day of His choosing when the curtain will be drawn (by the Restrainer's removal) and His Face will be hid, allowing His full Wrath to be poured out, as has never been seen before ( Matthew 24:21). Blessings.

Hey Chris that makes sense , except the scriptures do not call Sunday the Lords day , the sabbath is certainly the Lords day according to scripture, it started before the law , so throwing out the law does not work . Also John as all Jews understood the Sabbath to be the Lords day no explanation needed at that time . It's reported that all early Christians kept the Sabbath. If Sunday is the Lords day as well then it would be lords Days . So it can only be one . And scripture confirms it to be the Sabbath. The Roman Catholic Church changed it to Sunday on the authority of the church so they say , and even cursed people for keeping the Sabbath! Seems a little wrong to me . And here we are 1800 yrs later and few give it a thought . Thanks for your thoughts!

Hi Meek and seek. You have quoted several Scriptures connecting the Lord's Day to the Sabbath Day. Apart from Revelation 1:10, this phrase is not seen in other parts of the NT, so we could ask, 'why does the Apostle John use this term to define the day that he was visited by the Lord Jesus?' It is clear that John does not speak of the Sabbath, as he would have certainly used that name that he was so familiar with before coming out of legalistic bondage into the liberty of Christ. It seems that John had in mind some specific event of Christ that set Him apart from any other day or event. And this to me was the day of triumph, where Jesus, having paid the price for our sins, rose again from the dead for man's justification, & received into Heaven, seated at His Father's right Hand. If this is day I believe it is, then the Lord's Day would apply to that Resurrection Day, the Day of Victory, being the first day of the week.

And as a matter of interest (but not in the Scriptures), it is recorded that some of those early writers during John's lifetime and later, also began using the phrase, "the Lord's Day", and they referenced this day to the first day of the week, Sunday, with no reference to the Jewish Sabbath & its irrelevance to those under Grace through the Cross. While Jesus was on Earth, He lived and ministered to His people who were under the Law (not only the Decalogue, but the whole Law and Statutes). Once His Work at the Cross was accomplished in victory, that Law was cast aside for it only promised judgement and death. And through His death, Jesus ushered in the New Covenant, making the first one old ( Hebrews 8:13). So as those IN CHRIST, we celebrate Jesus' victory won for us at the Cross, and this we do as has been done over the millenia, on that Resurrection Day, the Lord's Day, Sunday. GBU.

Greeting's

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

Blessings

yes, S. Spencer,

I meant Gal 6:15-16. Thanks for catching that. Was replying while watching little Rosie, the busy little toddler we delight in each day.

Hi Gigi.

I believe you meant to reference Galatians 6:15-16.

Blessings.

Hello "Chuckles44" is true as it says, and this we must understand that this was written to men and women in the church context. As many many have distorted. We are going to talk about the woman here: An unusually weak, uneducated individual, (did they go to school at all, it must be allowed to ask yourself)? A person who can serve. A person to and subordinate. A mother, a nurturer, it's allways the woman's fault, and mm. At first, there were only men in the churches. But Jesus probably solved that problem. Because He was followed by many women. And Paul also had many sisters. So this is probably more proof that the church Timothy ruled over, had some difficulties with authority in the church during meetings for example. It is not only women who talk over each other at meetings. Many men interrupt and speak too. Unfortunately, narrow-minded men are often the cause of divisions and apostasy in churches. But if we are going to look at it, remember that a man is called a fool, and much, much more if you look in Proverbs. So my advice is that you overcome the thought of and see this negative attitude that can be distorted to underestimate and discriminate against women. In the eyes of God, we all stand equal before God. Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. That is what is right. Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. There may be a few more who have some good words on this question. I hope you have gotten some answers, and you are welcome to ask any more questions you may have. Love you in Jesus.

Lbooth1955

Pt.2

I ran out of room and wanted to complete my thoughts.

As one who, until coming to this forum, never knew the dispensational way of interpreting the Bible, nor really any other interpretive theory, I find that my interpretations align well with the reformists-Luther, Calvin, and others that followed them even though I have only recently learned the theology they propose.

I am in agreement with most of what is taught by the reformers. But having learned much about dispensational theology and tenets, there is very little that I agree with as to the approach to Scriptures that forms their doctrines.

Even so, I appreciate your contribution and replies to me. I am always thankful when someone tries to give a reason for why they believe a certain way.

But I pray we will continue to walk in the blessing, promise, and hope of all the saints, including Abraham and all who are spoken of in Hebrews 11, because that is all of our inheritance in Christ, which is abundant life, eternal reconciliation with God, the communion of the saints in one body, and the same exact eternal destiny for all who believe.

Dear Lbooth1955

I must disagree with your analysis on the basis of what Paul teaches in Galatians.

Vs. 3:6-9 affirms that gentiles who believe and are justified through faith, are the children of Abraham and are blessed as Abraham is blessed with the promises and inheritance being possessed by all who believe the gospel as Abraham did. (also vs. 14). vs. 16 states that Jesus is the promised Seed of Abraham and that those who believe in Him receive the promise also (vs.22).

Paul affirms in vs. 26 that believers whether Jews or Gentiles are THE children of Abraham and vs. 28 says that in Christ there is not a distinction between Jew or Gentile, both being brought together as one in Christ ( Eph 2:15) re-affirms this.

And vs. 29 clearly states: and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we are to interpret this passage literally and at face value as correct doctrine without overlaying it with dispensational ideas, it clearly says that there is one people of God, believers in Jesus only, and at ALL in Christ receive the promises and inheritance of the covenant made with Abraham by the Godhead. (vs. 17)

Since I do not overlay Scripture with the tenets of dispensationalism, I firmly attest that there are not two peoples of God-Israel and the Church-as this passage clearly teaches; that both Jews and Gentiles are one people in Christ.

I attest that we are not taught in Scripture to keep Israel and the Church distinct from each other, rather that Christ has brought Israel and Gentiles together in His body as the Church-which is the heir of promise made to Sarah while ethnic Israel is not chosen, rather is children of the flesh-of Hagar (4:22-31).

And Paul defines those who are made a new creation in Christ as the true Israel of God (5:15-16).

I realize that those who apply dispensational principles to interpret Scriptures differ greatly from those, like myself, who have never known what dispensationalism teaches.

Dear Shawna.

In Scripture Jesus tells of the prodigal son. This story shows that our Father in heaven looks for us to come back to Him. He desires this greatly.

But different than the human father, our heavenly Father works all things for good for His own. So, in the case of one who has forsaken his relationship with the Lord, God is always faithful ) 1 Jn 1:9) to forgive us when we turn back to Him, but is faithful to us in that He orders our lives in such a way that everything that comes about, whether evil or good, He uses for drawing one back to Him in this life.

In the prodigal story, the young son came to the end of himself and his selfish life and turned back to his father in repentance, but in reality, the events in his life that prompted his repentance were ordained by God to occur as the way to draw this son back to his father.

god is faithful, even when we are not, and when one is born of God, this person belongs to God in Christ having been bought by the price of the shed blood of Jesus. God does not reject those who are His. 1

(1 Corinthian 1:9)

We can always pray for such a person to be turned back to God by asking the Holy Spirit to do so. This is His ministry within us that makes our souls desire reconciliation of a real and saving relationship with the Father through the Son.

Might Hebrews 11:3 be the most brilliantly simplistic reason and definition of Quantum Physics ever given, 2500 years before it was discovered?

Hi Poppybrown75.

Revelation 21 gets away from me in the first two verses!

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, PREPARED AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband.

We have a new heaven and a new earth!

Ww have the holy city, new Jerusalem, prepared aa a bride for her husband!

This great holy city is the Lambs wife having the glory of God!

Revelation 21:9-11.

I don't believe there's a way to visualize that!

Everything else in this chapter is within this incomprehensible city!

Blessings

Hello Poppybrown75

While I do think the Scriptures say that the New Jerusalem on the newly remade earth with the Lord in us and among us is the where believers will dwell with our Lord, I do not think Scriptures say anywhere that we will be raptured before His second coming.

I think the Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus comes back once only and this is to bring destruction upon the wicked, resurrection of those who have died, the changing of living believers into glorified bodies as those resurrected in the Lord, judgment of the wicked to the lake of fire, and renewal of all creation into its original goodness only greatly enhanced.

While the Scriptures speak of Jesus reigning, I believe that this is a forever reign with all the saints without sin and corruption.

Thanks Richard,

We can be assured that the Holy Spirit will always lead us into holy actions, thoughts, and motives. He will not promote divisions in the body of Christ, nor cacophony within worship situations, nor outbursts of those who think they have a "word from the Lord" that must interrupt a worship service or the preaching of a pastor or leader.

We are to be humble, reverent, holy, and focused on giving God glory when we gather together.

This is how the Holy Spirit works in us and within a congregation gathered.

This does not mean we cannot clap, sing with joy, lift up praise to God, or other ways that express gratitude to God and joy in Him.

It was to born again Christian's that Paul spoke to in Corinth when he said " ye are yet carnal" . Still in need of being taught the very basics ( the milk) of the Word when they should be now teachers of them .The church has over time reduced the gospel to being but BORN again and has built a lot of confusion upon it by trying to make all s ruptures conform to it .

To be BORN again is simply getting out of Egypt . From the bondage of the world and dominion of its "Pharoah '.

How ? By the blood of a lamb the Word of God ( to Abraham) and the Power of God over Egypt .

But to be born even into this world is not the end but just the beginning .

A baby comes out of the darkness of theur mothers womb and into the light of this world . First by the breaking of the waters then the show of blood then the new life . So likewise the spiritual rebirth of those who were in darkness and dead in trespasses and in sin . First by the breaking of the Word to the understanding . That leads to the blood and Gods all sufficient sacrifice for Sin . Then the new life . A new born bay y has life but it needs the continual filling of the breath of life to live that life n earth .

So likewise spiritually we are BORN again and now have life. But to live that life we ust be continually filled with the Holy Spirit .

We are by faith in Jesus Christ counted righteous. The HolySpirit imparts the righteousness of Christ and by degree as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of God do works of righteousness " preordained from before the foundations of the world ".

1John " Little children yiur sins are forgiven and you know the father "

You young men the Word of God dwelleth in you richly and you have overcome the wicked one"

Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning "

Little children can be deceived thry know what they want but rarely what they need .

You cannot become young men capable of overcoming the wicked one by just consuming milk .

Gen.1.14-20 "Season and time"-5

"And the evening and the morning were the fourth day." The Covenant in seven days is the key to the entire God document and it is Holy because the word is holy. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( Jn 17.17). What do seven days indicate? The Word is the Law of the kingdom of light and the two great lights are 'great' to distinguish them from the natural lights dealt in v.14. The lesser light shall rule the night so the outer darkness is not left to do what it pleases as we see the events unfolding in Gaza. God shall judge them. So between season and time there is a period which in the vision of Daniel is called,"they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time" The four beasts are world empires in which the number four establishes the Word which was God. The word that has gone forth shall never return to him void. The Word which was God says Amen to him. Here we have the Law setting four as a command number for the Word. Jesus is the word is set in terms of the Son so this compound number 4x3 signifies the gospel preached to the people. Jesus did not pick up the passage at the synagogue but was given to him,"And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written," (Lk.4.17) By the same token the man clothed in linen tells Ezekiel and there is no mistaking,it is a warning to Israel, " and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel." (Ezek.40.4) Beast is tagged with number 42 and is made up of 6x7. The beast in 13.1 goes to war with the holy city which is not literal Jerusalem but against the will of God. "t was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there." Compare 6x6x6x1000 and 12x12x1000

Dan.7.12 "Season and time" (4 of 5)

"Yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

This is a night vision meaning the divine Will concerning nations re set in terms of the acceptable year of the Lord. The four nations are set aside for a season and time. In the parlance of the Spirit season refers the kingdom of light. v.22 is his commentary on the vision of the fiery throne,"Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom." It is an everlasting dominion given to the Son of man. So judgment of the seven beasts is referred in v.10 by the phrase"the judgment was set, and the books were opened."

The Acceptable year of the Lord ends with the day of Regeneration and in Mt.19.28 twelve thrones are set for the 12 apostles of the Lamb so one can be sure Judas is not included. It is not historically settled but by the Lamb. He is the Word which was with God and not the word become flesh. The king of glory is Jesus Christ who settles the issue. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."(Matt.25.40)

Coming back to the key verse, the season and a time supplies us two entities; one refers to the saints of the most high and in the new heaven and in the new earth they descend with the Lamb to the mid-air where the tabernacle of God is set.(Rev.21.1-3) Second entity is time. This refers to the time of the gentiles in which the heathen are those destined for the outer darkness. "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."(Rev.11.2) The temple of God is in midair and the court and it is which the beast enters (Rev.13.1-5) In the vision of Ezekiel the line of flax, 'and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long' refers to the beast 6-6-6 The months 7x6 refers to the beast.

GiGi,

That's a really good question...

From a dispensational viewpoint, the seeming conflict between Christ's presence in heaven with the Church and His reign on earth with Israel during the millennium is resolved by recognizing distinct roles and promises in God's program. Christ's glorified human body is indeed localized-He retains true humanity united with His deity ( Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 2:9). Thus, He will bodily reign on earth in Jerusalem, fulfilling covenant promises to Israel ( 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Zech. 14:4, 9; Rev. 20:4-6). His throne will be established in Zion, and all nations will come to worship Him there.

Meanwhile, the Church-the Body of Christ-will be glorified, caught up to heaven before the Tribulation ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17; 1 Cor. 15:51-53). In glorified bodies, believers are not confined by earthly limitations but will share in Christ's reign ( 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 5:10). Revelation 19-20 shows the Church returning with Christ at His Second Coming, participating in His rule over the nations. Thus, while His glorified human body is localized on earth, His divine nature is omnipresent, and His authority is universally administered.

The Church's heavenly position does not require Christ to remain bodily in heaven during the millennium. Instead, believers reign with Him from the heavens as His administration extends across both realms. Israel's promises are fulfilled in the land under their Messiah's earthly kingship, while the Body of Christ shares His rule in the heavenly sphere. This preserves both the integrity of His humanity and the distinction between Israel's earthly kingdom and the Church's heavenly calling ( Eph. 1:3; Col. 3:1-4).

Grace and Peace

pg 3

In summary: Hebrews highlights Israel's faith and destiny through Christ's work, but from a dispensational lens, those OT saints will inherit their earthly kingdom centered in the New Jerusalem, while the Body of Christ enjoys a distinct heavenly hope revealed only through Paul's gospel. Both share perfection in Christ, but their programs and destinies remain distinct.

Grace and Peace

pg2

3. The "Better Thing" ( Heb. 11:39-40)

The OT saints did not receive their promises yet. Why? Because resurrection and kingdom blessings await Christ's return (cf. Dan. 12:2; Matt. 19:28). The "better thing for us" refers to the new covenant and Christ's finished work-blessings that must come through Messiah before anyone (Israel or the Body) is made perfect. But dispensationally, Israel's perfection comes in their kingdom ( Acts 3:19-21), while the Church's completion is at the Rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:13-18). Both groups are perfected in Christ, yet their destinies differ.

4. Heavenly Jerusalem ( Heb. 12:22-24)

The "heavenly Jerusalem" is the capital city of Israel's kingdom hope ( Rev. 21:10-12). Hebrews addresses believing Jews who will inherit that city as part of their program. The Body of Christ, however, is said to be "blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places" ( Eph. 1:3), and our conversation/citizenship is "in heaven" ( Phil. 3:20-21)-not tied to Jerusalem.

5. Distinction of Destinies

Israel (believing Hebrews, OT saints): Inherit the land forever, centered in New Jerusalem, under Christ's reign ( Gen. 17:7-8; Isa. 60; Ezek. 37:21-28; Rev. 21:2, 12).

Body of Christ (believing Gentiles and Jews today): Caught up to heaven before the Tribulation, seated with Christ in the heavenlies ( Eph. 2:6-7; Col. 3:1-4; 1 Thess. 4:16-17).

Unbelieving Hebrews: Like any unbelievers, they face judgment and eternal separation ( John 8:24; Rom. 9:6; Heb. 10:26-27). Scripture does not promise them an earthly "second chance" destiny.

Key Scriptures supporting the dispensational distinction

Israel's promises are earthly: Gen. 13:14-15; Jer. 23:5-8; Ezek. 37:21-28.

The Church's hope is heavenly: Eph. 1:3; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 1:5.

Israel's kingdom is tied to New Jerusalem on earth: Rev. 21:2, 10-12.

OT saints into Israel's kingdom program: Dan. 12:2-3; Matt. 8:11.

next...

Hi GiGi,

Great question-you've hit a passage that at first glance looks like it merges the destinies of Old Testament saints, believing Israel, and the Body of Christ. From a dispensational viewpoint, though, we need to carefully distinguish between God's program for Israel (prophecy, earthly kingdom promises) and His program for the Body of Christ (the mystery, heavenly calling). Let's walk through it step by step.

1. Hebrews and Its Audience

The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers, encouraging them not to fall back into Judaism but to press on in faith. Its focus is not the Body of Christ but believing Israel within the prophetic kingdom program (cf. Heb. 2:3-5, the "world to come" spoken by the prophets). This is critical, because it means the promises emphasized there are connected to Israel's hope.

2. Abraham and the Heavenly City ( Heb. 11:10, 14-16)

Dispensationalists agree Abraham looked beyond earthly Canaan. He expected resurrection and a perfected kingdom under God's reign (cf. Heb. 11:17-19). But note: the "heavenly city" in Hebrews is not the same as the Church's destiny "in the heavenlies" ( Eph. 1:3; Phil. 3:20). Revelation 21-22 shows the New Jerusalem descending to earth to be the center of Israel's eternal inheritance. It is "heavenly" in origin and quality, but it comes down to earth ( Rev. 21:2). Thus, Abraham's hope remains tied to the earth through Israel's covenants, not to the Church's mystery program.

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Genesis 2 v 1-3 and Isaiah 58 v 13 and in the NT Matthew 24 v20 indicates that it's still in effect according to Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath. Any thoughts ?

Chris,

Thanks and that's a great question about the Tribulation.

From a dispensational view, the Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:21) and the Day of God's Wrath ( 1 Th 5:9) are distinct in emphasis yet coordinated within Daniel's 70th week ( Dan 9:27). The Day of the Lord is the overarching heavenly program of judgment; the Great Tribulation is the intense, earth-side experience-especially the last 3 years-when the beast persecutes Israel and the nations ( Mt 24:15,21; Rev 12-13; Jer 30:7).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 marks the transition: the Restrainer is "taken out of the way," the man of sin is revealed, and the Day of the Lord proceeds. Most see the Restrainer as the Spirit's restraining work through the Church; at the catching away that restraint is lifted ( 1 Th 4:16-18; 2 Th 2:6-7). This does not make evil sovereign; it means God judicially permits lawlessness to ripen so He may judge it openly.

Revelation shows judgment initiating from heaven as the Lamb breaks the seals ( Rev 4-6). Seals, trumpets, and bowls are decrees from the throne, answering the martyrs' cry and culminating in the King's appearing ( Rev 6:9-11; 19). Thus the Day of Wrath is truly a continuum: it begins with restraint lifted, escalates to direct plagues, and finally crests in the cosmic dissolution Peter describes ( 2 Pet 3:7-12).

Romans 1 helps explain the "early phase" you sense: God's wrath is already "revealed from heaven" when He gives society over to its chosen rebellion ( Rom 1:18,24,26,28). Applied eschatologically, the removal of restraint is itself an act of wrath-God handing the world to the consequences of rejecting truth ( 2 Th 2:10-12).

Therefore, while Great Tribulation and Day of Wrath can be distinguished (earthly persecution vs. heavenly initiative), they belong to one coherent action of God from heaven that begins with removing the Restrainer and runs through world-ending judgment, after which the promised kingdom is installed ( Rev 20; Acts 3:19-21).

Grace and Peace

1 Timothy 2:12

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Does this verse mean a woman should not, in any case, have authority over the man?