Discuss John 10 Page 20

Adam, you are not even considering verse 18, which tells us Christ could not be The Most High. You must take into consideration the conversation Christ had with those who hated him and accused him of being God. Do you remember it? It is recorded at John 10:24-39. When Christ said: I and the Father are one. They became angry, believing he was making himself equal to The Most High. How did Christ answer their charge? He refers his opposers to a Psalm 82, which records The Most High condemning the judges of Israel, who were perverting justice. Yet He called them 'gods'. Why? Because they had delegated to them judgment of life or death, wielding great power.

Then Christ concluded with the statement: Say ye of him whom the Father sanctified, and sent into the world, thou blasphemest, because I said I am THE SON OF GOD? (Capitalization mine for emphasis)

Here Christ clearly defines his relationship with The Most High. He is the Son of The Most High, not The Most High.

As I tried to explain in my first comment, we have all been duped and deceived by Satan until now. We are now in 'the time of the end' when the Word would no longer be 'shut up' and 'sealed'. However, just as their were those who could not hear the truth coming out of the mouth of Christ, to day the world will not listen to the truth coming out of the mouth of Christ's 'brothers'; the 'predestinated' ones Paul wrote about extensively at Ephesians 1 and 2.

The truth is available to all men because few have been 'born again'; baptized in water and Spirit. Without Spirit, one cannot hear the words of Christ. To sum up, you have heard the truth, backed up by Scripture. You must decide whether you should continue to cling to the deceptions that have hypnotized the world or pray for The Most High's Holy Spirit to grant you understanding.

Peace, seeker of truth.

Lets have the Bible interpret:

Psalms

Chapter 23

1 (A Psalm of David.) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

( Isaiah 40:11)

( John 10:11)

( 1 Peter 2:25)-For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

( Rev 7:15-17)-For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

( Psalm 19:7-9)-the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

( Psalm 3:3-8)

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

( Revelation 21:6,7)-

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

( Luke 6:36,37)

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

The Godhead Scriptures

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There's only 10 scriptures proving it.

However I found another one tonight.

Wow...eleven Holy Scriptures; Divine and Inspired. Written in the Bible on paper and not altered by people.

No problem. As Adam left you a link to a page. When you are in the KJV 1611 section, click up at top of this page, use the index finder to the right. When you put in the book and chapter you want to look at. Then click the red arrow. It will come up in text. Scroll down a little and you will see the picture of the page to the right. Click on it and your in. Click on it again and it gets even bigger. Have fun!

Hi Mike,

The 1611 KJV is literally from 1611 A.D. the very first printing of it and it shows the actual scans of it, so you can compare and figure out anything that has changed. Of course the meaning hasn't changed, but the English language has actually changed a lot in 400 years, so it the KJV was adjusted to match the current language.

Link

You can do a parallel view of each chapter to see the differences:

Link

Thank you again for your reply, you said you have every page photographed. I am having trouble finding these page photos. I found images of the bible but how do I look up 1st peter kjv page photos for and example?

Hello Mike,

Hopefully I can help with a couple of your questions. The KJV is the best, oldest, version of the Bible we have. One thing that is quiet awesome of this site is when you look in the 1611 KJV section. They have every single page photographed, and posted here, of an original 1611 KJV Bible. Very cool. Many of the newer versions have had things removed and words changed. As the KJV is the oldest English Bible. So with just a couple of the verses you have. In Luke 19:23 the word they made "bank" was the original Greek word "trapeza" transliterated from Greek. This word means "a table or stool" or "a table or stand of a money changer to count money". The word is used thirteen times, in the New Testament, for "table" and just once for "bank". Seems ok instead of saying maybe "my money onto the money changers table". The other one is Isaiah 11:6. It has always been "wolf also shall dwell with the lamb". As you have "the young lion and the fatling together" in the same verse. Along with "the lion shall eat straw like the ox" in the next verse. The lion and the lamb thing was actually started in a song way back and got popular. Spreading but it was always "wolf also shall dwell with the lamb".

Hope that helps some. God Bless.

Some words that I see, I run through THIS websites SEARCH BOX to see if the search engine has that word in it.

If the word your looking up doesn't fetch some scriptures, then it's not in the KJV. The website will ask if you want to google search? It will offer scriptures it thinks will help you find the word you are searching:

Similar but not the same.

Don't be afraid to search around and see what all this website can help you with in your studies.

The Commentaries are within the Search Box. Click/touch your scripture. It will turn yellow. Scroll downward and there you can read the Commentary by a scholar.

If you get "lost". Just back arrow out or go out and come back in again.

Mishael

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There are only 10 scriptures proving it:

Mishael

Thank you for your reply. The reason I ask is that in mark 2:22 says no one puts new wine in old bottles wasn't always wine skins? Also in luke 19:23 uses the word bank "Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury" Did they have banks when they translated 1611 kjv? Also in Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, wasn't it always "the lion shall down with the lamb? And the our father prayer in Luke 11:2, now says "Our Father which art in heaven" wasn't it always "our father WHO art in heaven"? I have many more discrepancies.

2 Timothy 2:22-26

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23

But foolish and unlearned questions AVOID, knowing that they do gender (cause) STRIFES.

24

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25

In meekness instructing those that OPPOSE themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the DEVIL, who are taken captive by him at his will.

2 Timothy 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST WE DO NOT ARGUE ABOUT THE GODHEAD

Genesis 1:1, 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There is only 10 scriptures Proving it.

Mishael

God bless you brother Mike

This site's Bibles are exactly what they say they are as far as I understand.

But of course there is no perfect translation if that is what you are after. The truth-teacher is the Holy Spirit. Get the Holy Spirit, everything else is secondary.

Love in Christ

The KJV or King James Bible is The most accurately translated Bible. The NIV and others have changed many words to be "easier understood." They use more common and modern language. One must also understand that, in translation, different languages may not share the same words. Therefore, the most accurate and appropriate words were used during translation.

I urge you to do some research on Google about how the KJV and 1611 came to translation so you will have a better understanding! I did the same and without any doubt prefer the King James over any other.

Hope that helps to answer your question.

Well written Charley - great Scriptures.

Is this kjv bible and specifically 1611 version any way revised wording to match current times or is this exactly how the actual physical bible reads?

Isaiah a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call him immanuel

which means god with us. isaiah 7-14. isaiah 9-6 for unto you

a child is born unto you a son is given and the government

shall be upon his shoulder;and his name shall be called wonderful

counselor the mighty god the everlasting father the prince of

prince. he is god rob you have been deceived sir, john 20-27-28

doubting thomas reached out and said to jesus my lord and my

god, so i guess thomas was wrong, you have been decived by some

cult. john 10-30 i and my father are one. then they wanted to stone

my lord jesus, please tell me why?i know because he said he was

god equilto the godhead, you have been deceived rob. one more

steven being stoned. knelt down saying lord jesus receive my

spirit acts 7-59 i leave you with this every jnee shall bow and every

tongue will confess jesus christ as lord, or hell will be your ruin

you probably do not even believe in a literal hell but it is real.

i beg you to repent from your error it is a fearful thing to fall

in the hands of an angry god. heb 10-31

Thanks Rob - I see where you're coming from. I've tried my hardest to get you to give some explanation to some of these other verses that speak more of Jesus, God's Son, but you have refrained & instead gave me the answer: "There are those that are ever learning but not able to come to the truth." Well, we are ever learning but we do have Truth, & increasing we trust, to hold onto, but it would be awful to be in a position of rejecting other Scriptures so that a particular belief can be supported. I won't bother you again - thank you for your time Rob. Blessings.

It does say in the New Testament

There are those that are ever learning but not able to come to the truth .

What is the truth ? Exactly what God said . How simple can it be ? You hear it believe it receive it , keep it . Amen .

That's an interesting explanation you've given: "No matter what other scriptures you may read you can not change this truth or alter it. It's unchangeable just like God is unchangeable. So you use the light of this truth to understand more truth. If you add to the truth it becomes a lie."

So we have Mt 14:33, "Of a truth thou art the Son of God." And Luke 1:32, "be called the Son of the Highest."

According to your understanding, using these verses to the exclusion of any other verse that could add to the understanding that Jesus is the Christ, the One born of God & called the Son of God, we would have to overlook portions such as John 1:1-14 as 'secondary' & unworthy for inclusion into the primary meaning & understanding of Jesus Christ. So if you consider the John 1 portion as changing or altering the Truth about the Son of God, then how do you arrive at that conclusion? And if it indeed does so, & we thereby do disservice to the Word by including it with God's Son, then I ask, what do we actually do with such Scriptures? Could this Word of God, both very God & with God & then becoming flesh to dwell on the Earth, not actually pertain to Jesus? Then to whom & how are we to read this & understand this? I've tried looking at with all the possibilities I can, but still it hits me as I read it. Even if I don't understand how this can happen, do I have to conclude that this portion has some other meaning?

Using your Romans 6:23 example: "For the wages of sin is death" as all we need to know about this Truth. So if I then read Isaiah 59:2, telling me that my iniquities have separated me from God only, but not consigned me to death, I would be perplexed.

Or Mark 9:43-47: for me to escape hell fire for my sins, all I have to do is to remove my hand or eye or foot that consigns me to hell. Rather, to help me understand further that my sins result in death (both physically & spiritually), it helps to know that I'm separated & also to deal with the trigger for my sin.

Sorry to hear your twisted interpretations.



Read 1 John ch 4 and 5 very carefully and you will learn why I dis agree with you .

1john 4 v 15 is enough in its self but so much more !

One explanation for how to read the scriptures is like this .

If you truly hear and understand a truth like ( the wages of sin is death ) for example . Then it's absolutely unchanging. Gods word endures for ever never changes Just like God never changes .

So no matter what other scriptures you may read you can not change this truth or alter it . It's unchangeable just like God is unchangeable .

So you use the light of this truth to understand more truth . If you add to the truth it becomes a lie . That's how Satan works he says hath God said ? And adds more to what God clearly said .

Often I see people changing truth , because they never heard it correctly to begin with .

Jesus said to him that hears shall be given more .

It's all about having ears to hear what God says .

This is child like faith in trusting the word of God because Gods understanding is in searchable and infinite. The spirit of truth is spiritual , and wicked people will never understand.

The real issue today is all the false doctrines and interpretations that have had many years to deceive people

One of my most earnest prayers have been don't let me be deceived, as Jesus said in Matthew 24 , beware lest any man deceive you . I do believe what he said . I'm not deceived ether . He answers my prayers .

Rob jesus was always god, he who new know sin became sin for us

that in him we may have the righteous of god, jesus was conceived

of the holy spirit therefore he did not have a sinners birth , the holy

spirit inpregnated mary to have a sinless untainted blood spotless

lord jesus christ , jesus chrsit was always god maifested justifed

in the spirit preached unto gentiles believed on in the world and received

up into glory. 1st tim3-16. john 1 in the beginning was the word and the word

was with god and the word was god. colossians 2-9 in him dwelleth all the fullness

of the godhead bodily. jesus is god and always was god from the beginning of creation

hell awaits the sinner denying his deity, i can give countless more scriptures the virgin

born son of god. jesus chrsit is lord king of kings and lord of lords.

Rob, just to accept that "Jesus was Born of God" would be fine for all of us, except for the fact that we still have to deal with the other Scriptures that also expand on this. Are we then interpreting those 'other Scriptures' incorrectly, or maybe they shouldn't even be there, is what we're suggesting? And how do you deal with them? How do you interpret them. If I focus only on Jesus' Birth as a fresh creation of God, albeit from a special, holy Seed, I still have to, as an extensive Bible reader & believer, deal with these other Scriptures. If I choose not to do so, then I would be living in a bubble of my own doing. If I want to understand a teaching from the Word, I endeavour to consider all Scriptures pertaining to it & then establish its meaning (of course, the proper "dividing of the Scriptures" is essential). I don't come the other way: first decide what a doctrine or teaching should mean & then find the Scriptures to support my belief. To me, this leads to error & then often, to multiple errors.

The classic one is on God's election of mankind to salvation. As you know, there are some views on this, all supposedly based on Scripture. The bottom line is, what basis does God use to grant salvation to one person & not another. Should we all then adopt the hyper-Calvinistic approach & leave the matter with God & not preach the Gospel since the one elected to salvation will come to Him regardless of any effort from us? Or is there another answer when we search the Scriptures? There may be nothing conclusive to be found, but a determination is made based on what we learn, & so the Gospel is still preached so that all men (both elected or not) may hear & decide. God does not tell us that in His foreknowledge He makes his determination & we may never conclusively say it is so, except we might use what Peter concludes in 1 Peter 1:2. Now, is that sufficient for us to rest our understanding on, or do we disregard it since it did not come from the "Mouth of God"?

Chris the very simple explanation for the Godliness Of Christ is ; he was Born of God . Yes God is infinite and he comes from God by Birth . So he has qualities that came from God that no

Man ever had . You must except Gods witness. And not add to it . If we do not hear the word of God correctly we are open to a sea of interpretations , yet only one truth is all the there ever will be . Gods .

There is a famine in the land and it's the hearing of the word of God . So many false interpretations is what I see .

Dark days indeed we are in .

I thank God very much the the Word is open to me , we only get it by obeying what we know , or the light starts going out .

Rob, I doubt if any one would disagree with you about the Sonship of Jesus & even how He sometimes referred to Himself, as the Son of man. And you are well aware of where we differ in this matter by the Scriptures we've cited.

The essential point is that, in the volume of Scriptures you quote to support the idea that Jesus was a specially created Being by God & not coming out of the Essence of God to be a man, what do you, as a student of God's Word, do with the other Scriptures as we have given you, to show otherwise?

I knew someone, not a believer but an ardent reader of the Bible. He knew & believed that God was a God of Love but just could not understand why false writings were put into the Bible showing God sending Israel out to the Promised Land to utterly kill every living thing there. He just could not reconcile God 'instigating & encouraging murder'. So he carefully proceeded to rip out those 'erroneous' pages from the Bible so that his further reading of it would be in line to his understanding of the Doctrine of God. I'm certainly not suggesting that you have done as such - I think much better things of you - but your reservation to explain away these Scriptures we bring to you to show the Divinity of Christ, both pre & post incarnation, is notable.

You can certainly keep on writing that Jesus is only God's Son revealed on Earth & nothing before this, but one would have to wonder what you are doing to those other Scriptures that show otherwise. Do you re-interpret them, avoid them, obliterate them, etc.? In love & concern, we long to learn from where you get your ideas from - & I'm assuming that you're not a JW (as I would approach this discussion differently). If your ideas come from reading the Word, the same one we all read from, then what happens to the other Scriptures that also give us an added view of the pre-incarnate existence of Christ? This is unavoidable - we are constrained to deal with them as the Word of God.

Jesus was BORN OF GOD . And was also a man .

First of His kind ever.

BORN OF GOD . Able do and things and know things that no other man could ever do with such authority.

Why ? Because God was with him .

He never claimed to be or say IAM God . He said that the father whom he prayed to was greater ....

Simple to me but the spirit of error keeps people in the dark , because they can not see the truth of Gods word .

Satan blinds the minds of men and does he ever .

If you seek me with your whole heart then you will find me , God said to those in days gone by , but it still holds true for today .

Rob, I'm not sure which version of the Bible you use but have a read of John 10:32-38 again, just to clarify what blasphemy is & what Jesus was accused of being.

And when you get to verse 36, consider, "of whom (Jesus) the Father hath sanctified & SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" So, if one needs to be a stickler on the definition of Son of God as being a Son from birth only & not 'out of God's Being', another can then correctly say that Jesus was SENT into the world; why should Jesus use the word 'sent' as if He came from somewhere to go somewhere? Wouldn't it be more correct then to say, 'The Father hath specially created me to be born at Bethlehem & gave me a special ministry & finally to given my life for the world'?

And while we're examining the Scriptures, what about John 8:56-58? Abraham rejoicing to see "his day"! Are you so mad to say that you've seen Abraham? the Jews retorted. "Even before Abraham existed, I AM". Again, notice Jesus' choice of words to describe Himself.

And Colossians 1:15-17? "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". That whole passage cited, is speaking of Jesus, not God.

Do even these few portions of Scripture cause us to think that we have here, Someone Who is more than a separate creation born into the world to fulfil God's Plans. Someone who was involved in the creation of all things, visible & invisible, One existing before Abraham & One even sent by God from somewhere to somewhere (the World)? I know that you are well aware of these Scriptures, but I remain perplexed as to how some other interpretation can be given other than understood as read.

God bless you brother Adam

Thank you for you reply. To respond to your comments:

You ask where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ is the name of the Father. The answer is: (directly) Isaiah 9:6 - He (Christ) shall be called the Father /// (indirectly) Acts 2:38 - Jesus Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father; the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

You quote 1John5:7. With all due respect, if you look it up, you will find that that verse was not in the Bible originally. The apostle John did not write it. Rather it was an addition by someone else around the year 1500.

You quote John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14: The spirit in Jesus is God. So of course Jesus can say that the Father and I are one. When a man says "I know", is it the body that knows? No, it is the spirit in the man that knows. Jesus Christ and God are one Spirit. /// The Word which was with God and became flesh is the Christ (a Spirit). Not the baby born in Bethlehem, but the Spirit inside that body.

You ask if Jesus prayed to Himself: That is absurd. The body called Jesus prayed to His Father whose Spirit was dwelling in Jesus just like it dwells in all sons and daughters of God.

You speak about Christians believing literally what the Bible says: This is NOT true. Think about things like female Christians cutting off their hair. Christians taking the Lord's Supper in the morning. Taking leavened bread instead of unleavened. Using juice instead of wine. Think about Christians not doing footwashing. Think about Christians saying it is okay to be gay. Saying it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. God have mercy upon us all.

Lastly, you ask about my motive: That is probably the hardest of your comments to respond to... To see if someone will be able to accept it.

Peace & Love in Christ

Jesus said he is the Son OF God and was accused of Blasphemy for saying that .

Jesus never said I AM GOD you people can not enter into just what the Son of God means ! Are you really that blind ?

Jesus was Born OF God . He had unique wisdom , relationship and power from God that no man ever had , John the Baptist the greatest of all prophets stated he was not worthy to loose his shoes .

Many said that the things Jesus did proved that God was with him !

So true how do you miss this ?

They never said oh He is GOD and Jesus never said that either, nor anywhere in the Bible .

Why even God never said this Jesus is me when God spoke at his baptism, So if Jesus really is GOD then the voice from heaven lied .

Do you not see how crazy this claim is that Jesus is part of a Godhead ?

These are just a few examples of so many more that could be said .

Dear Hugo,

I'm not sure what your motive is for coming to a Christian Bible website and calling something that most Christians believe in a 'falsehood'. Where is your proof that what you're saying isn't a falsehood?

The reason people believe that the Father, the Son (the Word, or Jesus), and Holy Spirit are one is that the Bible literally says that in 1 John 5:7. If you hover over the links you'll see it.

So, since the Bible already says that, the real question is why don't you believe the Bible verse 1 John 5:7?

If you're looking for other Bible verses that support that, here they are: John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14 (The Word is Jesus Christ)

It shouldn't be too much of a surprise when Christians believe literally what the Bible says, so if you don't that means you must have a different interpretation of it, right? Of course most do not interpret it the way you do.

You wrote: "Jesus Christ is the name of God the father"

I'd like to ask what Bible verses do you believe supports that idea and where does it come from? Jesus is the same God, but a separate being/entity than God the Father. If He was exactly identical then the Bible would not have separated them into 3 entities/personalities or called them separate names, and wouldn't have given the verses it did. Since Jesus prayed to God the Father, is it logical that Jesus was praying to Himself? Matthew 26:39 - He said 'let this cup pass from me... not as I will, but thou wilt." This verse refutes your claim that they are both Jesus Christ. Would any of Jesus's prayers make sense of He was praying to Himself?

God bless...