Discuss John 5 Page 27

Hi Rob,

I don't think anyone here has ever said Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Like you stated flesh from being born of Mary. Though no virgin can give birth to a person. They must be conceived. The Holy Ghost is what conceived Mary. The Holy Ghost is of God. Jesus Christ was not just a human like you or me. He was part human part God.

I was wondering if it was the same Rob I have had conversations before about the divinity of Christ. In your question about "God not being flesh". Which I believe we all know. Also has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God the Son.

He is on the right hand of God. Nothing is above Him and everything is below Him. Just as God the Father as they are ONE. Also the He existed before the world was.

As I might as well bring this up as well as I know some believe this view. That Jesus Christ received the Holy Ghost at His baptism in the Jordan. Maybe because of the vision John saw of the Spirit descending upon Him. Which to me was just for a testimony. Also as God spoke from Heaven. John the baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb as in Luke 1:15. I don't understand how anyone could think the Holy Ghost/Spirit of God was not with Jesus Christ from His mothers womb also. Also in that John was born of two human parents. Not as Christ in that God is His real Father. Even showing Jesus knew he was the Son of God in Luke 2:49. As we who are born again, knowing God is our Father, receiving the the Holy Spirit of adoption as in Romans 8:15-16. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and ONE with God the Father. Along with the Holy Ghost. 1 John 5:7.

No one said anyone gave anything to God the Father.

God Bless.

Page 2.

Re: the Lake of Fire. It is prepared for the Devil & his angels ( Matthew 25:41) but is also the place where all Christ-rejecters go to in the final judgement ( Revelation 20:10-15) & particularly verse 15, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." And that includes not only the Devil & his angels but also the anti-Christ, the false prophet & all mankind that were not found in the Book of Life.

"Who created such a place?" I would say that God has done this. "Who does "the torturing in hell?" No one - it is a place of continual fire where the act of dying is continual but death that is longed for never comes ( Mark 9:43-48).

And these are not parables by Jesus; Jesus is telling us what lies beyond the grave. And that is why Jesus came to die on our behalf: that we might be spared God's Judgement to enjoy new life on Earth & then eternity in His Presence. As I mentioned before, if just dying & returning to dust was our punishment, the Gospel would be practically meaningless, as we all have to die & enter into such a state of 'oblivion'. But Jesus says that some will awake to "the resurrection of life & some to the resurrection of damnation" ( John 5:29). There is no permanent middle ground at the graveside - we all have to go somewhere else - and that's why the Gospel is so special & precious: it saves a person entirely, both in this life and the next.

Thank you Steven. To bring that to a personal level: when we are led of God's Spirit, the wrist watch, diary or calendar are both unnecessary & irrelevant. We may need those things for our day-to-day activities & to keep appointments, but in God's economy His Spirit gives us both timing & direction.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God"; the Spirit will always lead us, as God's children, but do we always obey His leading? Can we ever step outside that leading & that Will for us & not grieve the Spirit by doing so? As Jesus always sought His Father's Will in everything ( John 5:30), He fulfilled God's Plan for Him & Israel to the very last minute. How often we wonder whether we're in the centre of God's Will & might even become despondent in our circumstances - rather, we ought to be sure that there's nothing hindering the Spirit's Words & Work in our lives & that our ears are always inclined towards Him, rather than to the voices around us.

And yes, the Jews ought to have known from the Scriptures that the Messiah had come to them & by the many proofs Jesus had shown them. But that knowledge mixed with human perceptions compelled them to reject Jesus.

They would have asked, 'How could the Messiah oppose or contradict the very Law He should have rather fully supported & expounded on? A breaker of the Sabbath? Allowing an adulterous woman to live? A forgiver of sins? How could He claim to be God's Son - God is One? Joseph was a descendant from David, & Jesus was not Joseph's son - Mary's lineage wasn't considered - Jesus didn't fulfil Messianic prophecy? Where is the liberator from the Roman oppression; instead we get a humble, self-sacrificing holy Man?'

As the Word says, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." ( John 12:40; Isaiah 6:10). BUT He became the Saviour to all who would believe.

The one True God, Yahweh is spelled with a capital G, not a lower case g. And furthermore, God exists is three persons as stated in 1 John 5:7 quotes, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Notice how the Triune God is mentioned several times by references plural pronouns such as us and our; describing the Trijne Godhead.

Mark 12:36-37 quotes, "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly."

John 1-5 quotes, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 quotes, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 19:30 quotes, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

John 15:26-27 quotes, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."

The Father, Yahweh is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. They are the same person.

Wow. You shall be in my prayers. You just stated the Father, the Son(Jesus Christ), and the Holy Ghost are confused? It is clear you do not believe the Scriptures and have your own carnal idea of God. Matthew 12:32, Matthew 12:36.

Also you do not believe, or understand, the words of Christ like John 10:30?

You know God says listen to His Son right? Matthew 17:5. Even further like the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Exodus 23:20-22.

Also to glorify the Son is to glorify the Father. As they are ONE. John 14:13-14. The only way to eternal life is through the Son of God. John 14:6. 1 John 5:11-13.

God is ONE. I pray the Lord leads you to leave your own beliefs behind and trust Him and His Word.

You seem to believe in the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Though you seem to doubt who the Lord is just like the Pharisees did. Bringing Him down to "just a man". Matthew 5:20.

God Bless.

Dear Bob,

Im assuming you are serious so Ill ask you a question... Have you ever talked to yourself? Who is talking and who is listening?

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20"



God is who he says HE IS, whether we understand it or not.

That is hard to accept because pride and human reasoning get in our way.

Read Pauls answer to another question that cannot be answered by our frame of reference.

" Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

It's actually a good question from our point of reference. God asks us to believe, "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God 1Cor 2:5". and "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him Heb 11:6"

Understanding will be given to us if we are believe first.

By the way God does, has and always will agree with Himself. John 5:7-8. You will one day as well if you are saved.

May God bless his word and thank you for your sincerity.

Dear Adam, You seem sincere so I will honor your reply. To rightly understand this, we must first use the instructions given to us by God and rightly divide the scriptures. Saved must be understood in context. For the saints under the law at the time of Christ and for those who will have to endure the time of Jacobs trouble (enduring to the "end" of the tribulation and entering into the promised Kingdom of Heaven on earth given to Israel), will be essential. Many if not most will have to die and be martyred to keep the faith. Their works will be evidence of their faith and will be essential as a testimony to that. That is why you read so many verses about that in Matt, Mk, Lk, Jn, Hebrews, James, Peter, 1-3 John Jude and Rev. You are correct in understanding that those during that time would be able to abandon their faith and would be judged for it. When the Kingdom of Christ is again set up through the believing remnant and reigning, the law of God will flow from Zion for the whole world. Violation of Gods law will be dealt with through righteous judgment and the penalty for transgressions will be quick. (please read about Ananias and Saphira in Acts.5:1-11)

That is why 1 John says to the saints of that time not to pray for some sins. See 1 John 5:16. Remember that Christ gave and will give the Apostles in the Kingdom of Heven on earth the divine authority to forgive sins or not. John 20:23. Matt 19:28. When Israel rejected the witness of the the Holy Spirit Act 7:54-60, God set aside Israel and Chose to reveal through the Apostle Paul a new dispensation. See Ephesians 3. Until the body of Christ is removed and the fullness of the gentiles if come in, works are not part of salvation. Believers can do nothing to be made righteous but believe in the faith of Christ. God seals us with His Holy Spirit and we are immersed into the Body of Christ and adopted into his heavenly family. Rom 8.Our works will be judged but we will be saved See 1 For 3:15. Eph 2:8-9 God Bless

satan's spiritual relationship with antichrist parallels that of God to Jesus.

-God's Spirit is counterfeited by satan spirit

-Jesus' Spirit is counterfeited by antichrist spirit

-Holy Ghost is counterfeited by the false prophet spirit

1) Jesus's ministry was 42 months

To: ( Revelation 13:5) antichrist receives 42 months

2) ( Revelation 1:8)

To ( Revelation 17:8)

3) ( Revelation 5:6)

To: ( Revelation 13:3)

The three evil spirits that God had stricken us with, to prove us, are gone. ( Revelation 16:13) ( Revelation 19:20) ( Revelation 20:10). It is the dragon (satan) the boss that gets locked up for 1,000 years..

Below is conclusive "mirroring" evidence of the spirit world hierarchy:

( Daniel 8:24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

"but not by his own power" as that power comes from the dragon, given from God.

( Revelation 13:2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

"the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority". satan gives power to antichrist, antichrist is the son of satan, but antichrist is not satan. antichrist is under the possession of satan.

( Titus 2:13) Many scriptures point to Jesus being God, but this hierarchy evidence can't be overlooked. Jesus told his adversaries all along who he was, but they didn't have the wherewithal to grasp it, Jesus continually said His power was not of His own, but of the Father. The theologians argue this paradox out to contention.

( John 5:19) ...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do....

( John 12:49) For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me....

Hello all,

I just thought I would state this detail of a verse that came to light.

In Colossians 1:19. For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;

As this is after speaking of Jesus Christ being the image of the invisible God and by Him and for Him were all things created. You may note that "the Father" is in italics in verse 19. Because in the Textus Receptus it is not there. It would actually read something like "for in Him it was pleasing that all the fullness dwelt".

Jesus Christ is more than a man and He existed before He was born. He was in on Creation. I can't understand how some would state that all the Words in His mouth were of His Father. Of coarse I understand the Father is in Him and giving Him all His Words to speak. Though you can easily see Jesus Christ is His own person with His own soul. Speaking to and of the Father constantly. Jesus Christ is most definitely ONE with the Father and just as much God though the Son. He is at the right Hand of God. A couple more verses stating He existed before He was born: John 3:12-13, John 6:38, John 5:45-47, John 6:62, John 8:58.

Maybe just to bring up the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Just one instance is Exodus 23:21. Not just a regular angel or even an archangel. How in Joshua 5:13-15. Where a Host of YHWH tells Joshua to take his shoes off for he is on Holy ground. As in Exodus 3:1-6. Again said to be an Angel of the LORD which is then stated as YHWH. God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Where Moses is told to take His shoes off. I would think because where YHWH is, is Holy ground.

I believe the Angel of the Lord in the OT is the pre incarnate Jesus Christ. Could I be wrong? Yes. As I have many other things to prove YHWH is not just one as normal people may perceive. Almighty God is ONE period.

I really don't know why people are trying to attack the deity of Christ. One day we will all have to stand before Him.

God Bless.

Hi Bob,

Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.

I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.

Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.

Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.

As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.

Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.

Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.

I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.

Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.

Do you believe the Scriptures I've posted?

Thank you. God Bless.

John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.

Do you believe these Scriptures? As I could put more titles that both Jesus Christ and LORD(from the OT) share if you'd like.

There is no trinity "doctrine". That is what is in the Holy Bible. Trinity is just a word of tri/three + unity= trinity. Jesus Christ is ONE with God the Father and so is the Holy Ghost.

And in those days, the Chosen One will sit on his Throne, and all the Secrets of Wisdom will flow out from the council of His mouth, for the Lord of Spirits has appointed Him and glorified Him.

So as you are a man are you trying to explain God yourself? All we do is read the Scriptures.

Just feeling to reply to this. Not really wanting to.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.

Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.

One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.

John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.

Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.

God Bless.

Satan thrown out of heaven: and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death revelation 12:11.their spiritual state of being: i have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of god abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one 1 john 2:14. obedience of faith: for whatever is born of god overcomes the world. and this is the victory that has overcome the world_ our faith. who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that jesus is the son of god? 1 john 5:4-5. glory to god: now to him able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to god our savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever.amen jude 1:24-25

I've been healed many times. At salvation I was healed of drugs plus alcohol abuse. I was suicidal and involved in actual astrological chart readings. I didn't know Jesus and didn't know I was serving Satan. The moment I reached to take hold of an invisible hand, I was sure (had faith) a Hand was extended to me; I was born again, delivered spiritually and physically. I didn't experience detox and I woke up the next day filled with the Holy Spirit who impressed on me to rid my house of all cursed occult items which I burned the next day. I hadn't read Acts 19:19 yet.

Every time I prayed for healing and received it by faith, it was done: migraines, arm wrenched out of range. I asked for $3,249.76 to move out of state, and I got that exact amount of money!!

You believe what Jesus says. We are not of this world. Ask the Father, in Jesus name; then receive it. Don't ask selfishly. Ask in faith. Stand on scripture. Jesus is the same today, tomorrow and forever. Fear not.

Mark Chapter 16

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth NOT shall be damned.

17 And THESE SIGNS shall follow them that BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents (like COVID), and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall LAY HANDS ON THE SICK and they shall recover.

Isaiah 26:3

You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you.

Luke 13:11; John 5:5; Acts 10:38; Acts 3:2;

Acts 4:9

Did Job trust God? Did everybody who knew Job or didn't know him; some accused him of sin, small faith; his wife told him to curse God and die; then at length God revealed His true majesty and wisdom to Job.

Touch God with praise, worship and your faith. He wants you to touch him. Read those scriptures.

Mishael

Hey Tom, I'm not sure of the reward you say for obedience but here's a few of my thoughts and some scripture, in respect to all who have replied.

1John.2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus called His Father His God. No one can deny the divinity of Jesus, the demons in scripture even knew who he was "the Son of the Most High". The Son was with the Father before the world because through the Son all was created. There is not any scripture that says how the Son began only He was the beginning of creation. The word Godhead is in the Bible 3 times "theots" meaning deity, divinity, "Theion" meaning Devine Being, both can be said of God and the Son of God without saying they are both God.

God bless us, Ron

These scriptures do show the Godhead speaking amongst themselves. Before and after the Cross.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Mishael

1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

( 1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Revelation 2:22-23 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

What is the motive for this campaign to discredit Jesus's divinity? Why do you celebrate when you feel you have delivered your case? Does this actually come from God, or does it actually come from the great deceiver?

Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.

Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 44:6

John 20:27-28

John 10:30

John 5:18

John 1:18

Colossians 2:9-10

John 10:33

John 1:1

John 1:14

1 Corinthians 8:6

Revelation 1:17-18

Acts 7:59-60

Matthew 28:19

2 Peter 1:1

Acts 20:28

1 John 5:7

The Father in Him (the Holy Spirit) was good.

BTW the Father's name is Jesus too- John 5:43

Ron, you asked a lot of questions there that seem to sidestep the main question: Do you believe the Bible or not?

Do you believe 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." or not? So, when the Bible says the "three are one" do they mean the three are NOT one? That's what some people in this forum are claiming, which sounds like they believe in the truth of the Bible.

For those who try to discredit this verse, what other verses will they try to discredit and where does it end? Do they only pick the verses they don't like to 'reinterpret' or do they treat all verses equally? Can someone be a Christian who doesn't fully believe the Bible? Have you tried praying and about this? God bless.

Dear Sacha,

If you're a Christian and don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is mystifying. If you don't believe in the many scriptures in the Bible that say not only Jesus is the son of God, but is God, then that is mystifying. You are in the minority who believe that. Many think saying such things as what you just said is a heresy, but I wouldn't go so far- I think it's just misunderstanding in the same way the other person did. Much of it involves falsely assuming a format like this: "Jesus has one title, therefore he can't (with my own human interpretation) have other titles, because my personal reasons." You suggested that Jesus is not Lord, but that's a foundational belief in Christianity and is throughout the Bible. It's sad that someone has to also assume false motives of another Christian too. Did you pray to God the Father about this before posting such controversy?

Examples of Jesus is Lord: Link

Romans 10:9

Romans 6:23

Philippians 2:10-11

Luke 6:46

Isaiah 44:6

John 13:13

1 Thessalonians 4:16

2 Timothy 1:8

Acts 16:31

1 Corinthians 12:3-5

Did you reach each of the above?

Romans 10:9 for example says: ""That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."" - some translations word it as "...if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord..."

Deut 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

This verse is similar to: 1 John 5:7-8, John 10:30, and John 1:1, John 1:14, and so many others that say Jesus is God. This doesn't mean Jesus is God the Father, but Jesus is God the Son.

When it says "we are one" that does not mean they are separate. It means they are one. So, when a man says they can't be one, or Jesus is separate somehow, because it says they are 'one' that idea self-contradicts itself. I believe the Bible as it is written.

Thanks for sharing your evidence. I agree with all the scriptures and believe and trust in the Bible. I don't trust your interpretion of it, however, as to arrive at such a conclusion you first have to cherrypick a few verses and ignore many verses. Secondly, the few cherrypicked have to then be interpreted in an unconventional, distorted way.

So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.

The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.

John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.

One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.

Verily, I have received this truth by revelation of my Father in heaven. The same way Peter received it and proclaimed when Jesus asked him

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

- Matthew 16:15-17

Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you see?

He's not the pagan babylonian/roman "god the son"

2 Corinthians 5:19

King James Version

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The Holy Scriptures proclaim

God was in Christ.

Not God was Christ. Or Christ was God.

This is why Jesus told Mary after he was risen:

John 20:17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God

Jesus had a Father and a God and that God was in Him and in Heaven @ the same time.

When you say Jesus was fully God you exalt the flesh and create an idol for yourself.

All the pagan religions have a trinity: starting with the original mystery of iniquity in Babylon (nimrod semiramis and tammuz) to Hinduism, greek gods, roman gods etc.



Christian's only believe in one God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Holy Spirit.

The verses you referenced speak nothing of a "trinity" of Gods. 1 John 5:7 is speaking of God the Father who is in heaven.

And 1 John 5:8 is speaking of the blood covenant by baptism of water and Spirit on the earth.

John 8:31-32

Trust in the word and forsake the teachings of deceived men.

Be well, in Jesus' name

Respectfully, that is your opinion, and not what the scripture declares. You have chosen to interpret the Bible a certain way and that is your opinion. Most Christians don't read the Bible in the way you describe and disagree with you. But what really matters is what God says the truth is. There's been some fake news circulating around lately where some are claiming Jesus isn't God, but a few Bible scriptures debunk that lie very quickly.

Here's what the scripture declares: John 10:30. John 1:1. 1 John 5:7-8.

The heresy of claiming Jesus didn't become man and wasn't who he said he was even occurred back in Jesus' times and is even in the Bible! 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7. It literally calls these people spreading the lies the antichrist.

So, the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God and was fully man. Since it says that, the phrase Jesus was fully God and fully man sounds true. Just because the phrase in that word order doesn't appear in the Bible doesn't mean it's not 100% true. The Bible also doesn't use the word restroom anywhere, but that doesn't mean people never had to use a bathroom or toilet.

Since it clearly says in the Bible it's true, it seems like an unusual argument to make against it being true. It doesn't seem like such an argument would come without scripture evidence or without serious prayer asking God if this is true or not, before spreading such information around. The Bible calling someone an antichrist is not a joke- that is a serious offense to mislead others and try to stir up doubt in the body of Christ. So, what is your evidence of this and have you first prayed to God and asked for confirmation if this idea contrary to scripture is "true"?

God bless...

There are not 3 persons in the Godhead.

Lord says he is God alone! There is no one with him in the Godhead!

Isaiah

40: 25 - God says he has no equal.

41: 4 - God says he is the first and the last: I am He.

42: 8 - God/Lord says he will not share his glory with another.

43: 10, 11, - The Lord says he is savior alone, there was no God formed before or after him.

44: 6, 8, 24: God says he is first and the last, no God with him, he knows no one with him. He made the heavens and earth alone.

45: 5, 6, 14, 18, 21, 22. - There is no God beside him. There is none else.

46: 5, 9 - No God equal with him, there is none else.

48: 12 - Says I am he, the first and the last.

In conclusion, if there are 3 persons in the Godhead/diety, you will have 3 Gods.

Scripture shows God alone is in the Godhead/deity.

And his name is JESUS, who is the Almighty:

Revelation 1: 8, 11, 17.

Zechariah 14: 9.

1 John 5: 20:

We know him that is true, we are in him that is true, in his son Jesus Christ, the true God!

Thank you once again Andrew.

To re-state: I certainly don't believe in a "triune co-equal triple god". There is only One God from Whom goes His Word & His Spirit. And John 1:1 states that that Word was with God & was God. And then verse 14 states that the Word was made flesh. That Word has now been brought into the World as Jesus. So who is this Jesus? Even Colossians 1:15-19 tells us that Jesus (the Word) was involved in creation & now is the Head of the Body.

You said that 'God created everything in Genesis 1'. "He spoke it into existence. The Son of God didn't fall out of His mouth." Was Jesus the Son of God in creation? No. Only the Word of God was spoken in creation. But God chose to send forth His Word "in due time" clothed in flesh for the suffering of death. I know nothing of the "beguilement of Rome & her sorcerers", but the Scriptures reveal who Jesus is, "the Word of God made man". If this simple yet profound Truth can be made to mean something else, then I would have to query so much of the Bible that might have other such secret hidden meanings, making it altogether useless to me, leaving me floundering in confusion.

Even 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." "Three, Three". Why is it even in there, if it were not important to reveal the three-fold Nature of the One God? And that to me (without the intrusion of the supposed trickery of Rome), is clear evidence of a Triune God: One God revealed in His Fullness: Father, Word & the Holy Spirit - all Three in operation for the salvation of mankind & no doubt, in the final judgement upon the World. Blessings.

No worries Chris,

You only get two admonitions.

God has a 2 strike law.

However, to answer your earnest questions..& to reiterate what the Scripture shows forth:

We aren't splitting hairs.

The deity of the man Christ Jesus is His Father (God). This does not make Him a separate god "of a triune co-equal triple god".

Where you and I differ is when you read the word Godhead: you understand it to be plural, when Godhead is a singular noun. In Spanish bibles it is written deidad; which simply means deity.

Likewise, when you read the word; Word in John 1:1 and 1:14 you understand it to mean: son or Christ.

Such is the beguilement of Rome and her sorcerers/TheoLOGIANs who have changed the meaning of words.

I certainly am no better than you, as I use to believe the same, until I was washed from those lies by the word of God.

When John 1:1 says: "and the Word was God."

I understand it as it is written, that the Word was God (the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ).

How did God create everything in Genesis 1? He spoke it into existence. The Son of God didn't fall out of His mouth.

1 John 5:7-8 KJV

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

These verses are not speaking about a "trinity". Rather verse 7 is speaking about God the Father (who is the Word and the Holy Spirit). And verse 8 is speaking about the baptism of water and Spirit ( John 3:5) by which you have the blood covering. It is a blood covenant.

Finally I submit to you to meditate on these verses of Scripture:

1 John 5:20-21

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Sincerely,

Andrew