Discuss John 5 Page 7

Matt.18:22-23 "Taking account" (1 of 2)

"Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven./Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants."

'Therefore' preceding the verse connects the verse before which gives us the Perfect number 7 and multiples of it. Kingdom of heaven calls for accounts which is directly pendent to the everlasting covenant drawn up in 'seven' days. God blessed His servants in manifold ways covered by verses in Ge.1:3- till 2:3. In the Parable of Jesus he refers God's commandment to man is service. He is the steward. Adam is a representational figure.(Ge.1:28) These are the Abstract and God shall require of his servants the proof of their service. Seventy is a man's life ("The days of our years are threescore years and ten,"-Ps.90:10). In short seventy years signifies the end times so when Jesus appointed seventy 'other' disciples he is referring to the everlasting gospel.( Luke 10:1)

The Spirit gives us an example of the Min-Max mode of narrative where a specific even veers of to the end times. Malachi 3:1 is a classic example. How we serve today is set in direct frame of reference to the Judgement so without abiding in Christ as so many branches to the true vine we are like the servant who hid his talent in the ground. ( John 15:3)

How does the talent is converted into the quality of service that one does? Gifts of the Spirit is given for building up each servant as well as for the common good. "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."(1 Co.12:7). And it is towards the one body to which gifts severally given to each member should count. In short no one may dare offending the will of God by serving as he pleases but according to 1 John 5:7-8.Both heaven and the earth must agree. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"(v.13)

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. ( John 5:17).

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. ( Colossians 3:23-24).

These two verses demonstrate to us that work in the secular or "spiritual" realm is to be done with all of our might (following the principal of Ecclesiastes 9:10). Christ actually states that in some cases such as John 4:38 that they have reaped what others have sown. John 4 discusses the conversion of the Samaritan woman (woman at the well) and her evangelistic campaign. In this case she did the sowing and the Disciples reaped the benefits. It is interesting to think that she was the first evangelist listed even before the Disciples were sent out two by two (I think). Even Jesus didn't have to work that hard in that respect; such gratitude for being saved by sins was shown in other women such as Mary Magdeline. Would we all approach the Great Commission with such eagerness.

When it comes to our everyday jobs I am grateful in my situation even with just part time work being all that I can do with other responsibilities that I am surrounded by people that work hard. I work doing food prep in a high school kitchen; and especially with intense State Inspection coming those who would want to mess about won't remain very long. Having supervisors that I respect in each of the other surrounding schools in the District where we are sent on occasion is an added bonus; along with the lady from one of them that joined our team today. There are a number of passages discussing employer and employee relations (in many cases servant and master analogy). Our work ethic isn't a substitute for sharing God's Word; but an opportune moment won't earn any respect if we don't have a foundation of trusted service for the weeks or months before such a conversation can occur.

Pray, ask God for forgiveness and ask Him to take the desire for sin from you, tell Him you love Him so completely that you no longer want to sin, that you want to live a life fully dedicated to Him without sin. (It is the nature of Adam, the old man that we are born with that causes us to sin but sanctification can rid us of our Adamic nature, all at once completely. Be sincere and when you are sanctified you will feel a joy and peace you have never known. Then ask Him to fill you with the Holy Ghost. If it's in His will it will happen. Be worshipful and trust God. Just continue to pray and talk to God. He will begin to take over your speech and you will start to speak in an unknow tongue. This cannot be the devil, as some people may say, you are in God's hands and He is NOT going to let the devil have any power over you. Those fanatics on social media are of the devil. He is using them to keep people away from this beautiful gift form God; to malign it. Here are scriptures that I hope will help you understand that this doctrine is from God. John 5:14, Col. 3:9, Rom. 6:1-7, 2 Cor. 5:17, Rom. 12:2, John 3:1-10, Rom. 6:10-11, Rom. 8:12-13, 2 Tim. 2:15.

This reply is probably going to get a lot of comments denouncing what I have said. I have lived with the infilling of the Holy Spirit for decades and I am a true child of God who loves Him dearly and I live every day for Him without sin. I do have faults. Sins send us to hell. Faults, are minor character flaws; these do not send us to hell. People who believe in the sinning/christian doctrine refuse to see the difference. Calling someone a bad name IS a sin but if that person upsets you and you just leave while praying for them, the sinning/christian doctrine teaches that since you got upset you sinned. Jesus said darkness and light don't mix. If you have questions about my stand on the false doctrines of gradual sanctification and sinning/christian please let me know. I hope this helps you. God Bless :)

Acts 2: 1-4

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (This blessing was meant for the church, then and always.)

Acts 19: 1-7

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain DISCIPLES. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." These men weren't part of the upper room gathering or they would already been filled with the Holy Ghost.

John 8:11b

"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and SIN NO MORE and:

John 5:14, "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: SIN NO MORE, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

So what do the scriptures tell us that sin is?

1 John 3:4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The Holy Bible -What it means to me

Here I shall give what seven decades of studying the word of God has taught me. My parents both devout Christians kept family prayers at the core of their parenting responsibilities. This led me to read the Bible even when they sent me over to a boarding school at the age of eleven. My understanding of it went through several phases and only when I began doing my word ministry the Spirit took over my instruction. (2 Ti.3:16)

I shall give in brief my understanding of the God document.

Rightly dividing the truth we set children of light under one nation and the children of darkness in the other in terms of God who is the judge. John 5:22. Jesus Christ shall determine which are the goats and which are the sheep. This is given in a similitude. (Matt.25:31-46) 'When the Son of man comes in glory' gives It is the fulfillment of Ge.1:3-4.

Similarly the seven days in Ge.1 shall never contradict. These are seven bullet point headings in the Everlasting Covenant. So sixth day indicates God blessed man ,which is to lead man to the throne of God and of the Lamb. (Re.22:1) God blessed the seventh day signifying it is without repentance.(Ro.11:29). All events, names of land and people, their significance or what happens to them or their actions, are of consequence. New Jerusalem is fulfilled in heaven and comes down. So correct approach is to treat both worlds of the Spirit and of the earth as one. Col.1:1-3; 2 Co.5:1-5. Christian Living is walking the talk.

Comparing spiritual with spiritual is the correct way to explain the doctrine and shall not contradict the holiness of God under any circumstance. So promises are yea in the Son."

Chris

It seems you have the Bible only in your hands,but have not the Word of GOD in heart.This explain why you believe in esoteric,and kabbalistic,and spiritists,AND FICTITIOUS names of God, which Satan stealthy introduced in the OT, in Torah,Jewish Scriptures-Tanack,as if were names of the true GOD,but are fictitious NAMES from your heart are JEHOVAH,YAHWEH,YHWH,ADONAI,EL SHADAI,HaSHEM.Terrible.

The words that proceede from your heart is from a human perspective,a stumblingblock-Genesis3:1-not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.Your testimony of GOD's Word signifies nothing and is good for nothing.In fact,what I reply here is because of the readers, not you.What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD Himself- John 1:1 combined with 1John 5:7,and around 2000 years ago He,even GOD Himself, was made flesh and introduced Himself among men by the NAME of JESUS- Matthew 1:21-understand?Isaiah had prophesied, saying:"The Lord Himself shall give you a sign;Behold,a VIRGIN shall conceive,and bear a SON,and shall call His name Immanuel-Is.7:14-(it means: GOD with us).

These Truth torment your esoteric,and kabbalistic, and spiritist spirit,GOD CURSED the Devil,the tree of good and evil,the figtree. JESUS,In His Ministry,said to the Devil:Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD- Matthew 4:4. The Word is GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, and the Word of the MOUTH of GOD is LITERALLY written in 66 books, KING JAMES VERSION is an edition of the book of the Lord, it is called Bible.

Oh no, my Lord JESUS never accused anyone, as you said, also my Lord JESUS NEVER USED the NAMES of Satan you have listed here, these are more false testimonies of you of JESUS's Person, it's the spirit of you is acusing JESUS,he is the Accuser, he has blinded your eyes,your own devilish words leave clear you know not my Lord JESUS.

If the supposed"glorious name Yahweh,as you say"is in your heart, it means the Devil is in your heart.

Psalm 23 "The Lord is my Shepherd"-1

This psalm is set from two standpoints. "The Lord said unto my Lord," refers to the Father Son relationship which is how we ought to approach this reverential psalm so God a Spirit represents the world of the Spirit. (Ps.110:1) In the night vision of Daniel the Ancient of days fit that part and the one like unto the Son of man (he came with the clouds of heaven-Dan.7:13)presented before him has this cloud in attendance. (He.12:1)

These witnesses are called by God before the worlds began and given to the Son. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." ( John 10:28). This cloud refers to a flock and it is to which David refers. The Ancient of days works from his fiery throne (7:9)so the Psalm 110 can be now put in proper perspective. "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./TheLordshall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." (vv.1-2) When he sent his only begotten Son to the world the fiery wheels of his throne of flaming fire did not stop turning. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."( John 5:17) explains a continual action. The word of God is in control.

The fiery wheels of God ever turn slowly so the Son may ever rule in the midst of thine enemies. In this context the message to the church of Philadelphia promises them an open door."behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." While the churches are persecuted,- there were broadly ten persecutions, Jesus Christ assures them deliverance so they could every one of them say, "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."(23:1) Before we study the doors in heaven vis a vis heart as a door this psalm shall fit our purpose to study two worlds of the spiritual bodies and of our vile bodies subject to evil of our times.

In transition we shall study this psalm verse by verse. (To ne continued)

Dearest brother in Christ

Adam

It's a pleasure to hear from you and from other brothers in Christ. We know that we are living in the last days, days of perilous times- 2Timothy 3:1. Yes, I have assert my evidence is the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, understand? And He never said His name is Jehovah, The original Hebrew says it not, this name was surreptitiously added in the translations of Scriptures by the Devil, even in the current translations of Hebrew Bible, the Torah. By the way, not only the satanic name/nickname Jehovah, but also other devilish NICKNAMES like YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah.

Well, my GOD is a devouring / consuming fire, understand? As you know, Satan was/is the more subtil than any Beast of the field(the world is the field) which the Lord GOD had made. Satan is the tree of good and evil -the figtree- , so when Satan said unto Adam and Eve they were naked, they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons, indeed they put on the clothes that the Devil gave them. This satanic event occurred around 6000 years ago. Terrible, very terrible.

I understand you and probably others are astonished with these revelations, but what matters and prevails is the righteous Judgment of GOD- Romans 2-, isn't it?

Oh no, I'm not against the true GOD as you are saying here, quite the opposite, I know Him and His Son JESUS, my older brother. The true believers know that whosoever is born of GOD sins not against Him. He that is begotten of GOD keeps himself, and the Wicked one touches him not.

1John 5:19-20

19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come,and has given us an understanding,that we may know Him that is true,and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the true GOD and eternal life(not the satanic Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, YEHvah)

"Evidence"

Evidence of things seen in the world of the flesh is unlike evidence of things unseen which can only be reconciled in God. (1 John 5:7-8) The Father the Word and the Spirit agree in one. Sum total of heaven and earth has only faith with which to possess them. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (He.11:1)

How reliable are proof in the world of the flesh? Joseph's brethren brought their evidence and their father believed it. "And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no./ And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat."(Ge.37:31-35). Similarly Potiphar's wife had proof. Substance of things presented as evidence in the world of the flesh has a way of getting lost. "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? For riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven."(Pr.23:5)

Greetings Adam

Good question. We are face to a deep and terrible puzzle/enigma. The most important is the Truth. GOD is Truth. The Word is GOD. The Word is from everlasting to everlasting. The GOD's people needs to investigate and seek Truth.

Replying to your question, I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added.

Remember, JESUS said: Re.22:18 -> I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

What matters and prevails is the pure Word of GOD. Isaiah 12:3KJV says: Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. (Jo.7:38-> He that believes on me, as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Compare with John 5:37-47)

4 And in that Day (in this current Day, the seventh and last Day) shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.(This will LITERALLY be fulfilled: Revelation 7:1-8. 144K)

5 Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth. -> ( Revelation 11:15-18, among other biblical references.Take a look)

6 Cry out and shout, you inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee. -> (Re.1:7-8-> 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, sais the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ->7 Behold,He comes with clouds;and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

GOD BLESS

Hey Chris.

Part one,

As I said I am not the best in explaining my understanding and I will try, I feel you deserve it, for you have been gracious to even discuss this with me.

1 Corinthians 15:47 This is after Jesus was raised from the dead and Paul is saying our Lord. First the earthy the first Adam then the spiritual the last Adam Jesus who did come from heaven when Jesus, God's Son was conceived in Mary's womb.

We see in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Jesus defeated death because He was without sin the firstborn from the dead the only man who lived a perfect life. After He was baptized and anointed God gave Him authority John 5:26-27.

Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5 My understanding is the preexistence of Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created. A man caused sin to enter mankind and it had to be a man to live a perfect life to fulfill and make void the law, God could not do that.

Hebrews 1:5 Jesus is not a God there is only one true God, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. a man who is God's Son conceived in Mary, who God raised in a glorified body and placed Him on His right side on His throne above all that is in heaven and earth and under the earth.

See part two.

Hi Ronald.

I have followed you and others on this great discussion!

Thanks for giving your understanding.

You stated the "beginning" in John 1:1-10 refers to Christ earthly ministry.

I believe we should ask ourselves "What was Christ role in those 3 years?

We know that Jesus's death brought in the new covenant that was Prophesied to come in the OT, ( Jeremiah 31:31) "also other verses". but what was his ministry or Role during those 3 years?

During Jesus 3-year ministry he sought out the ( lost sheep of Israel ).

John is identifying Jesus as "the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And as the "true Light, which lighteth (every man) that cometh into the world". Here John is not talking about Jesus earthly ministry, the lost sheep of Israel or his role.

JESUS ROLE AND THE ENDING OF THE OLD COVENANT IS ANOTHER TOPIC, BUT I BELIEVE THE 3 YEAR MINISTRY WAS ENDING THE OLD COVENANT AND HIS DEATH WAS THE BEGINING OF THE NEW COVENANT.

Jesus as savior was announced in Genesis 3:15.

In John 5:39 Jesus said "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Jesus's ministry as savior was performed in the Old Testament in types, JOHN IS NOT ADDRESSING THE BEGINNING OF NEITHER OF THOSE.

I would like to highlight something in John 1:1-10.

We see Jesus as the word, as God, as life, as light and as the "creator in verse 10",

Jesus is called the light, and that light didn't begin at Christ earthly ministry according to verse 9

This light is also mentioned in 1 John 1:1-7. God is also referenced as that light!

We see the Trinity in the light as the Father and the light as the Son as the same in these passages.

You have the father the son and the Holy Spirit exhibited in John 1:1-10 and 1 John 1:1-7.

God bless.

"I don't believe that the Pope is speaking for God allowing for same sex marriages and the Pope isn't great, matter of fact I believe the the Pope is Satan himself." I don't believe he speaks for God either and, indeed, he personifies Satan himself. I was being factious. I left Catholicism too when I left my Catholic home at 18. I couldn't stand it and was so relieved when it was in my past.

I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "and have been searching for a long time for the "true" religion." "True religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:7. Because you are a true believer, God is in your heart, soul and mind. You belong to God. Those who are true believers are The Church of God, sometimes called the Kingdom of God. You are a part of the Body of Christ. This is your religion. James is saying if you love God you will show His love unconditionally, but especially to the needy and keep yourself holy. If you wonder how you can "keep unspotted in the world" do this - read Exodus 20: 1-17. These are the ten commandments of God-not laws-commandments written by God Himself. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5: 3 and Jesus said: "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matthew 11:30. Some Christians teach a Sinning/Christian doctrine but this is false. We may have weakness and faults as a true believer. These are not sins. When we are born again we are not "perfect", of course, but God helps us overcome these weaknesses and faults by maturing in Him but we are to "go and sin no more." John 8: 3-11/ 11- ....... And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." I know I have been preaching :) and if I have presumed things about you that are wrong please forgive me, I just want to help if I can. God Bless :) I hope you will respond.

JESUS said: John 5:19-24:

19 ...Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth Him all things that Himself doeth: and He will shew Him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father Judgeth no man, but hath committed all Judgment unto the Son:

23 That ALL MEN should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hi Chris,

Colossians 1:15-18 as in John 1:1 what beginning is John writing about, this gives a different understanding, In Colossians what creation is Paul writing about if we look at it as the start of all creation, the angels the counsels of heaven as we see in Job 38, they were before this earth or is Paul writing about the new creation. Is Paul referring to Jesus before He was crucified? Or is Paul referring to the risen Christ? In Christ is the resurrected Christ not the Christ when He first came.

One other thing and Giannis can let us know if I am correct or not in verse 16, by Him, the Greek is en auto meaning in Him as we see in 2 Corinthian 5:17 Ephesians 1:4,9 Colossians 2:6 to be in the risen Christ. Paul is talking about the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 to be in Christ is to be a new creature/creation and reconciliation, this is this world and in heaven as we see things in heaven is as bad as on this earth and Jesus Christ is to make all new.

Hebrews 1:3-4 Jesus was made much better than the angels, this after He was totally obedient died on the cross and raised from the dead and ascended to heaven above all that is in heaven and earth. and in Him all will be made new. He was made means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do. Matt. 28:18 John 3:35 John 5:26-27 John 6:39 what Jesus did and had was given to Him from the Father.

I know this is short, I may be away for a while but hope to reply more soon.

God bless,

RLW

Chris,

Part 2,

John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.

All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.

God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.

This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.

Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.

Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.

I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.

See part 3.

God bless,

RLW

Page 3.

Your second question: "If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die?" There are varying beliefs about Jesus' position in Heaven prior to His incarnation. I rather simply accept John 1:1-18, John 14:10,11, John 16:27,28, 1 John 5:7, that Jesus came forth from God. Did He come out as a Divine Being in the presence of God, to be made a human for the sake of death, or did God take His Own Word & give Him flesh for this very purpose? We don't have a problem of God sending out His Spirit & the Spirit's indwelling in every believer (can He even be dissected?), but to send His Word out, clothe Him in a body, unnerves many.

"How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted...How can God die?" God is Spirit - He is Immortal - He can never die. No one, having a spirit from God, can die - the body will perish, but who can destroy the spirit which cannot be touched by age or man's devices? But if the immortal is given a body, as Jesus received, or even as we also have to house our spirits, then the body will die but the spirit lives on. Can God take on flesh? A mystery no human can fully fathom, but truly "a body hast thou prepared me" ( Hebrews 10:5-7, taken from Psalm 40:6-8). So Jesus could be tempted & could die whilst in the body, and so in His complete identification with sinful men in need of salvation, Philippians 2:6-8 reminds us:

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." "thought it not robbery" = Jesus didn't grasp onto/retain His equality with God, but 'emptied Himself' ('ekenosen'), laying aside His Glory, to become a Man, obedient to death that which was the Father's Plan.

RLW, I'm happy to discuss further if its a fair discussion. I asked if your use of trinity "doctrine" was to demean, and I'm gathering from your response that it was unintentional and not a tactic, correct?

This word was used to characterize our believing scripture like 1 John 5:7. You called it a trinity "doctrine" but I just call it reading the Bible as written. So, if you think my belief is a doctrine then I suppose your belief is a doctrine- that would only be fair. Just want a level playing field for whatever is discussed.

I think believing the Bible as written is important without distortion or bias, but I believe many things discussed in forums like this, such as the trinity, are not salvation issues. I've never met another Christian who has ever believed this, either. There are more that believe baptism, tithing or taking communion are higher on the essentials list than believing in trinity. Some churches have pastors that don't agree on the trinity. It is admittedly a confusing concept that humans cannot easily relate to, because we don't have 1 be 3 things and also 3 be 1 in our world.

God is greater than our comprehension and I trust that when God's Word says things like John 1:1 or 1 John 5:7 that it is true. I am aware of your objection with the translation, but I believe it is already accurately translated and other scriptures support it too. I also think there's a tendency to target the translation for verses people don't like, but often the verses people do like aren't equally dissected. This leads to a distorted understanding in my opinion.

I'm curious what you think about the last two verses shared about Jesus being the Alpha and Omega. To me that says that Jesus is God, but I'm sure you've read this before and have reconciled this with your belief somehow, so I'm open to hearing that. But if you want to save it for another day that's fine too. God bless.

I'm sure you know this went off topic of my original question, but am happy to discuss as long as this is genuine and respectful.

I did some searching online and couldn't yet find any church that believes what you said. A website for Orthodox Christians also said you don't have to believe in trinity to be saved, so I question the validity of this belief.

Is the goal of this is to demean Christians who believe what the Bible says about God in John 1:1, 1 John 5:7? Believing what the Bible says is not a doctrine, but denying it or twisting it can be considered a manmade doctrine.

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8 KJV

The Alpha and Omega is the Lord Jesus.

"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

Revelation 21:6-7

This says the Alpha and Omega "will be his God". Do you agree?

Does this not plainly say that the Lord Jesus is God?

If Jesus was not God, then why would the Bible say so many times that He IS God, like in John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16, Isaiah 9:6, and His own name Immanuel means "God with us". One would think if God wrote a Bible to convince us that Him dying for us was not Him but someone else and to tell us that salvation is from someone else and not through Him, then why would it say so many times Jesus is God. People called Him God, His name was God, He has the power of God, and the Bible says He is God. But I'm supposed to believe that He isn't though?

Trinity vs. Oneness Part 2

There are so many verses in the Gospels that they are too much to quote here. The idea is that Christ showed numerous times His role in the Godhead as submissive to the Father. John 5:19 is an excellent example where Christ stated that He could do NOTHING on His own but what He sees the Father doing He then does. Some of these issues no doubt were unique to the time He came to die as a man on the cross; which could be the premise of Matthew 24:36 also repeated in the book of Mark. Even HE didn't know the day or the hour of the return of Christ.

Before going on we can learn a lot about the nature of God in this relationship; much like the submission of woman to man in a marriage. Somehow in the Godhead Christ follows the actions of God in His work. It is clear through the death on the cross that HE was indeed part of the Godhead but that God the Father also had to take a role in holding the whole universe together for if it was only Jesus then it would have ceased to exist at His death as I see it. The counsels of the Godhead no doubt were involved with these plans before the foundation of the world for this plan as ( Ephesians 1:4 is but one example; also see Revelation 13:8 for the end result of this predestined plan for those who would be saved).

The plurality of the Godhead is also mentioned in John 14:21 to 23. This shows the Father and Son; and no doubt the Holy Spirit seals us in the day of redemption as well. ( Eph. 4:30). Also of course there is John 3:16 about God so loving the world and sending His son that whoever believes in Him will be saved. '

Oneness argument #3 Arminianism. The book of John is excellent in showing the Godhead as well as elements of Predestination involved with this. UNDERSTANDING THE GODHEAD TIES INTO CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF PREDESTINATION. It also ties in with holiness (Argument #4). True holiness must stem from a new heart reflected in outer actions; not from our actions.

Hi Adam,

Thank you, you are correct I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ as most of the greetings in the epistles Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 and more, and nowhere is this doctrine taught in the New Testament that we must believe for salvation.

It is like Matthew 28:19 the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved. My study of 1 John 5:7 is that it was added from the Latin Vulgate and was not in the original text, but that can be debated.

I understand I am in the minority and have discussed this before. We can find Scripture to fit a doctrine, but can we find Scripture where the doctrine was taught? I have not found where the Trinity doctrine is taught. Like Genesis 1:26 there are many beings in heaven and the word us does not say God was speaking to Jesus, that is an assumption.

Thank you again for discussing this in a loving and respectful manor, this subject is deep and as long as we have love for each other, and truth is what we are in search of.

God bless,

RLW

Thank you RLW for your input. It sounds like from your response you don't believe that God is triune like 1 John 5:7 says. The 3 verses about Godhead are not the only part of the Bible that says God is plural. Genesis 1:26 for example: "And God said, Let us make man in our image.." Jesus's followers called Jesus "God" and worshipped Him, etc.

Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

This question has been on my mind for a while:

When God is mentioned in the Bible, does it mostly mean the Godhead (trinity 1 John 5:7) or does it mostly mean God the Father?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matthew 22:32 KJV

Jesus is saying this and quoting scripture.

Is God in this verse, for example, the Godhead or the Father?

John 5: 2-9 "Diseases"

"He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps.107:20). Here we have the complete will of God the Father. By healing the sick and demon-possessed Jesus was not working miracles but fulfilling the will of his Father.

At Bethesda we see an instance where the angel fulfills the office of the word. "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had." Jesus did not have to ask the helpless man to step in the pool. He simply fulfilled the divine Will.

Now the text:

"Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches./ In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water./For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had./And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years./ When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?/ The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me./Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk./And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked."

The Spirit qualifies God as Jehovah Rapha. But fall of man rendered man's labor wasted; his ground tainted and the climate maleficent. His sin causing collateral damage and all the poison man pumps as weedkillers affect even the sexuality of mankind(DNA of Male brains found in female brain.etc.,) are manifestations of our world. For those who trust in the word of God should believe God as the healer.

"Cloud of Witnesses"

Christ as the brightness of glory witnessed in his body. The logos aspect of the Son is the Witness so he explains, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."( John 5:19). So we shall see what this cloud consists of. Jesus in his prayer made clear of those whom his Father had entrusted before the worlds began. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me."( John 17:16)

Jude in his epistle refers to them, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,/To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed." They are witnesses as the Son is appointed to judge the ungodly. (Jude vv.14-15) In short this cloud of witness are created from the Father Son relationship. The eternal Law serves the proof of their disobedience and as God is just their witness shall stand outside what Satan may bring up against. Also refer De.33:2.



We see them in the Book of Daniel, as witnesses, "And they brought him near before him./ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14)

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"(He. 12:1-2)

Jema

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Thank you for your reply of yesterday.I highlighted six points of your post to comment them,as follow:

1st point:

What will happen from now on in the middle east and around the world as a whole, it is written and prophesied by the Word of GOD.Remember: 1The.5:2-3:->2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,as travail upon a woman with child ( Revelation 12:1-5 will LITERALLY be fulfilled);and they(Israel-the Jews) shall not escape.(EXCEPT the sealed 144k-12K of each tribe- Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5). And also the LITERAL fulfillment of 2The.2:1-13, mainly verses 11-12:-->11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION,that they should believe a lie:(These are lost).12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2nd point:

Yes,Israel will loose support, remember that GOD is in control of History,nothing random happens.In the first moment Israel have received all backing of their allies,but they will loose a lot of support,as you said.And when this becomes apparent ARE NOT the enemies of Israel that will try to take them over, as you think, no, it is not,when Israel loose the support,then will manifest their false messiah as was prophesied by my Lord JESUS( John 5:43-47),and then begins the LITERAL fullfilment of 2Thessalonians 2:8-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18, and 13:2 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2,and Daniel 2:40-45 and 12:8-12. GET READY

3rd point:

GOD will not intervene to save the physical nation of Israel, quite the opposite, GOD will work according His Word described in the 2nd point above, among many other prophecies against the rebel Israel.

Only the 144K sealed of Israel will be saved.The others are lost, for ever. Revelation 14:18-20 combined with Isaiah 5:1-7.Take a look.

continues in the next post

Momsage

Didn't you understand yet? Around 4000 years after Adam GOD still was working, don't you learn this yet, or don't you believe in the Word of GOD? JOHN 5:17 - Jesus said to the keepers of Sabbath day: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. By the way, when my Lord JESUS said that to the Jews, it laready was the beginning of the fith GOD's Day, don't you know of this? Why GOD the Father still was working in the turn from the fourth to the fifth GOD's Day? Now, now, it because GOD the Father had established for He Himself, since the beginning, to work 6 Days and to rest in the seventh Day. Now, now, the seventh GOD's Day is now, even now, from now on, understand? From Adam until this current time have passed around 6000 years complete. So, you and everyone who thinks like you, must understand that only now, even now, from now on, will GOD the Father rest from His works. Again: It was still the fourth Day, so, understand, JESUS, the Greater Light, said to the Jews: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Of course, GOD and my Lord JESUS was working in the fourth Day, GOD the Father and JESUS are One, dispite being two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:1-3- , and as you know, "without my Lord JESUS was not any thing made that was made"- John 1:3.

Be sure that GOD the Father rests only now in the seventh and last Day, and my Lord JESUS takes command of the Universe and History, in Time and Space, now from this seventh Day onwards. And in the kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36- , which will be established now in the seventh GOD's Day , no seventh-day keeper will come in with his deceptive doctrine, whose doctrine was invented by the seducing spirit of Devil - Genesis 3:1- , and it was sowed through those which departed from the faith- Galatians 3:11, giving heed to doctrines of devils.

Be careful or then get ready

The Word is GOD, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 19:5-10

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our GOD, all ye his servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigneth. (combined with Revelation 11:15-18.Take a look).

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the FINE LINEN is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of GOD.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the TESTIMONY of JESUS: worship GOD: for the TESTIMONY of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy.

Wake up and get up quickly

Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath-Mat.25:29. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable. Remember: around 2000 years ago the Word was made flesh, see what He said: John 5:17.

Think it well - Matthew 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12).

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved( Romans 9:28): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ( John 5:43-47), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets( Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with Revelation 12:3-4), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - 25 Behold, I have told you before.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Greetings in Christ JESUS

John 17KJV

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given Him.

3And this is life eternal,that they might know thee the only true GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. (combined with John 5:17)

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

See, it is certain that the day of JESUS 'return is very very close. See how near He is, and take in mind that each passing day we are personally closer to JESUS. Time is ticking,ticking,ticking; see,don't sleep, but if you're already asleep, wake up, get up yourself fast.

Think well, we are at each day walking to meet our Lord JESUS- Matthew 25:6- , and He is coming walking to meet us in according He combined- John 14:1-4KJV:

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in GOD - the Word is GOD -, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.