Discuss John 5 Page 12

Hi David,

Thanks for your input regarding this subject of sin. Your are stating something that most Christians (including myself) have been taught to believe over many years. You stated: But we will not and CANNOT become a sinless personality until we have become "saved" both in SOUL and BODY. If we can't, then why did Jesus give us His Holy Spirit? John3:6-7 1John 3:9. John1:12

I mean no disrespect here, but you are reiterating the mindset of millions of Christians. I accepted this view for years, and didn't begin to question it until recently. Common sense tells me that if we convince ourselves the we CANNOT do something -we can assure ourselves that we will NEVER accomplish our goal. Our goal according to God/Jesus is to stop sinning! John 5:14 John 8:11

Matthew 17:20

"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

I believe that our failure to stop sinning is directly related to our faith. If Jesus tells us we can move a mountain he is telling us that we can stop sinning.

David you are saying that we can't stop sinning even with God's Holy Spirit which in direct contradiction to Matt 17:20 with Jesus telling us directly - "nothing shall be impossible unto you" do you believe this? Something that we all need to think about.

GBU

Just a quick comment here, Bro. Dan. I don't believe that any Christian, at least here on these pages, would ever advocate that we can just continue sinning because we can never get victory over sin - this I have state numerous times here over the years. In my other discussions over this matter, it was my stating that sin never leaves us & we ought to use all the resources given us by the Spirit to deal with the flesh & the Devil. But the fact remains that we can never be free from sin in this life - at least I've not met anyone who genuinely believes that he/she has reached that state & is now sinless (not just disobedience to the Ten Commandments, but to all sin).

And yes, 'we should encourage each other to stop sinning' but the converse is also true, especially for those who find that there is still some persistent sin(s) evident. And that is, that sin will always be at our door & we will always succumb, but we ought to see greater victory in our lives than greater defeat. So, I believe that teaching on this subject should be balanced. As far as John 5:14 & John 8:11 goes, I don't think that when Jesus told these two "to sin no more" that they subsequently reached a state of sinlessness. Rather, that they should no longer entertain that sin that caused their downfall. They probably still had more sins that they had to deal with. Blessings.

Hi Jema,

Did I say that I am not a sinner? If so, please show me where I stated that.

I presented scripture showing where Jesus expects Christians (including myself) to make a serious effort to stop sinning while on this earth. Why would Jesus tell us to stop sinning if it was not something we could do? Do you think it is impossible? Jesus tells us it is possible, and that he expects us to work toward that goal.

Again, my point is, we should be encouraging each other to stop sinning, rather than saying we will always be sinners, reinforcing this defeatist mindset, which is totally in disagreement with what Jesus expects from us in John 5:14 and John 8:11

If we believe in our heart and mind that we CAN"T stop sinning then we never will. The Holy Spirit can change our heart and mind!

GBU

Our Addiction To Sin

The apostle John tells us:

1 John 3:4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The apostle Paul tells us:

Romans 3:31

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

The wages of SIN is DEATH! We should not fool ourselves - Jesus didn't come here to die on the Cross so that we can KEEP SINNING! He wants us to repent and strive to live sin free. He tells us to Stop Sinning! John 5:14

The gift that God gives us in the salvation of Christ is to empower us to break free from the sin cycle, and repent of sin through conscious effort. When our own efforts fall short, His power is strong enough to help us succeed, but we must make the effort!

As Christains we should be encouraging each other to Not Sin, instead, I continually hear the opposite - stating we are sinners, and we can never stop sinning. That is a deafest attitude, and an assurance that we will continue to wallow in sin.

Read and Believe

Frankie J

Yes, I believe we can, if we have Faith in God, and Believe in His words, and we live in His Spirit, Jesus tells us all things are Possible. Matthew 17:20 1 John 3:5-9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Just like the scripture above, we would like to believe it, but we have doubt, and so our unbelief continues to provide Satan the opportunity to sow doubt, and we give him a resting place in our mind, and the ongoing ability to continue to control our mind.

Today, all we hear is a loud and deafening drumbeat from Christians telling other Christians - we can never stop sinning, reinforcing sin contrary to what Jesus tells us what he expects from us. John 8:11 and John 5:14

"Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

Today God gives us the same choice that he gave Adam and Eve. Gen 2:16-17 But we continue to eat from the wrong tree.

GBU

Greetings in Christ JESUS, Alex

Good question: Why wd this woman keep the commandments when she has the testimony of Jesus.

First, the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy. She is clothed with the Sun, the Greater Light , sent in the fourth Day or around 4000 years after Adam, that is JESUS. JESUS said:My Father worketh hitherto, and I work- John 5:17KJV. I and my Father are One- John 10:30. Under her feet the Lesser light, the Holy Spirit, also sent in the fourth Day, gives her sustention / sustenance, furthermore, the woman is already crowned under the doctrine of the twelve Apostles chosen by our Lord JESUS.

Yes, the dragon (the man of sin, son of perdition, the Beast of the earth- Revelation 13:11 combined with 2Thes. 2) was (will be) wroth/wrath with the woman, he will persecute the woman which brought forth the MAN child -the ancient of days - the Lesser Light - and to the woman is given two wings of a great eagle -the OT and the NT -, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished - nourished by the OT and NT, the commandments and testimony of JESUS -, for a time, and times, and half a time (42 months), from the face of the serpent- Revelation 12:14KJV.

And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth(earth here is the clay- Isaiah 64:8, the dry land) helped the woman(will be 144K???), and the earth(Jewish believers) opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon (a strong DELUSION that will be sent by GOD-2Thes.2:11-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18) cast out of his mouth.

Let us get ready, it is midnight, the bridegroom comes; let us go out to meet Him, all of us need to arise and trimmed our lamps. But wait, only lamp is not enough to walk now, it's necessary / essential to have oil, otherwise, the lamp will go out, but at midnight? in full darkness and nocturnal terrors?

Be careful

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 3.

Jesus by His blood entered once into the holy place not made by hands having obtained eternal redemption everlasting, never to fade, and in Jesus, we have everlasting righteousness and salvation, through faith, given by grace from God, by the blood of the Lamb freely offered for us. To look for everlasting righteousness to be brought in the future is to deny the work of Christ, which he claimed was finished. We have no righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.

5 To seal up vision and prophecy; seal up, affix a seal, a seal in biblical times as today, is used to guarantee security, or indicate ownership, fulfill a vision of God's communication with man, prophecy w-n-, the same word for prophet, the word of God given to us through a prophet. The greatest prediction, which runs through the whole Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23 John 6:27 Mark 1:14-15 Acts 3:18 John 5:36-40 Matthew 11:11-15 Romans 3:21.

All through the New Testament, it shows the fulfillment of the prophets and the law; fulfilled on the cross at Calvary. Gabriel was sent to help Daniel understand the matter, and consider the vision.

6 To anoint the Most Holy. Anoint, the theological meaning of mashach to smear, anoint. The Most Holy qa-da-sm qo-des, most holy, most holy place, Set apart from the rest for a special function. This was done by Jesus after he ascended to heaven before the destruction of the temple made by man. It is the anointing of the holy of holies in the temple not made with hands. Hebrews 8:1-12 Hebrews 9:6-14

Jesus went in once and anointed the Holy of Holies not made with hands. Jesus anointed the Holy of Holies once and made it possible for man through him and the Holy Spirit to enter the most holy and God can dwell in us. When Jesus cried out and said it was finished and gave up the ghost, the veil of the temple rent in half.

See Part 4

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 4

The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.

This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36 John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.

In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.

Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44 Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.

See Part 5

It would seem so based on 1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 4:4 and other similar verses.

This corresponds with the idea of all those not written in the Book of Life as well in Revelation 20:5. The status of a person is determined by God; as well as those who the Son is revealed to. ( Matt. 11:27). Thus; in God's timing Antichrist is revealed; and therefore those who do not love the truth will believe THE LIE ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12).

David

"what I believe the Bible declares"

This is just the point David,I've been making all alone. Faith does not come by reading, studying, pastor preaching, Sunday school, etc: Its comes by Rom 10:17; this is the faith that Paul preached, speaking to you personally within your heart. These others maybe good execises to support & encourage if there inspired by Holy Spirit. But it cannot stand alone or take the place of having a personal relationship with Jesus, & this is what God has set His heart upon. John 14:21,23,26; John 17:21,22,23; Our faith is cannot be base on other people experinences, though ever be so helpful. In the work of regeneration we come to 1John 1:1-4 Here John is speaking of His Spirit appearance within our hearts, the Life/Light was manifested, Grace appearance. As we diligently hearken to His still small Voice we come to experiential knowledge of the Lord, 1John 5:20; "we have heard, seen with our eyes & have looked upon & our hands have handled of the Word of Life, spiritually, in this working out of our salvation. Hebrews 9:28; 2Cor 4:6,7; that the excellency to the Power to understand & receive the things of God, is of God & not of ourselves. John 3:27; We come to know His mind/will & good pleasure. Its what King David experience in Psalm 119:130; it what made him more wiser than his teacher Psalms 119:99; it was his Psalm 119:105; Psalm 123:2; Psalm 59:9; Psalm 69:3 & he commands his soul to wait upon the Lord Psalm 62:5; its call in Scripture the Key of David, Rev 3:7; He alone can Rev 5:2,5; Isa 22:22: He is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessel. Col 1:26,27,28; 1 Cor 2:12;

Blessing to you, you have a great desire & a zeal David.

in Love & Truth

Frankie J

Hello, GiGi

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Thank you for your reply, I really enjoyed your post and hearing from you.



The subject is very profound evidently, however, as Paul Apostle did say, "our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD; we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory- 1 Corinthians 2:5&7. Our Lord JESUS promised saying: Unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance: ...

I like to meditate deeply in the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD( John 1:1), and to deceipher the biblical enigmas. The psalmist said: I will bend my ear to a parable, with a lyre(harp) I will solve my riddle.

In my view, Genesis is a GOD's Plan of RESTORATION of all things( Acts 3:18-26), revealed to Moses around 2500 years after Adam, or after two and half GOD's Days working in His creation. By the way, around 4000 years after Adam(end of fourth Day), our GOD was still working:JESUS, the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD, said:My Father worketh hitherto, and I work- John 5:17KJV. What was the work of JESUS? To fulfill LITERALLY Gen.1:26-27:

26 And GOD said, Let US make man(MANY) in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing UPON the earth.---> By the way, compare with Revelation 11:15 to 18 Here, our Lord JESUS still was in the BOSOM of the Father- John 1:18The question, you know, is that our GOD "calleth those things which be not as though they were"- Romans 4:17. Only now has the sixth GOD's Day arrived, so, only from now on will Genesis 1:26-27 be fulfilled LITERALLY( Luke 20:35-36) AS A PROPHECY. Romans 8:18-25 explain better. In my understand, Adam is a human gender.

Hey S Spencer,

Thank you, brother, for this discussion. I understand the 7-year tribulation rapture doctrine hinges on the prince in Dan. 9:26 and the he in vs. 27 as being the beast/antichrist at the end times. This is in brief my understanding of the 70th week and what Scripture says to me on this very important subject.

Dan. 9:25 says 69 weeks until the Messiah the Prince. Jesus was baptized and anointed by the Holy Spirit; the meaning of Messiah is the Anointed One. Vs. 27 "And he shall confirm the covenant" Isaiah 42:6 "with many" Matt. 20:28 Matt. 26:28 Mark 14:24, "for one week:"

Jesus came and was baptized and anointed by the Holy Spirit and John confirmed this John 1:34 The demons knew who He was Mark 3:11 and Andrew told Simon they have found the Messiah, and Philip told Nathanael, John 1:41,45 Jesus said this Luke 4:17-21.

In Luke 3:1-2 we see the time when John was called by God. If we look at history, Tiberius Ceasar, his 15th year would be 26-27 AD. It is considered Jesus was baptized in late summer or early fall. Jesus attended 3 Passovers and was crucified on the fourth in 30-31 AD. John 2:13, John 5:1 John 6:4 John 19:14.

There is a discussion on John 5:1 whether it is a Passover, but most accept it is. The old manuscripts have "the" in front of the feast leading scholars to conclude that it was probably the Passover feast.

The first Passover would be in 27-28 AD and His crucifixion in 30-31 AD. This would make Jesus's ministry 3.5 years, halfway through the 70th week.

"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" That is what Jesus's death did. Heb. 10 and when the judgment came in 70 AD the physical act of sacrificing ceased caused by their rejection of Him and crucifying Him.

See part 2

Hi S Spencer

We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.

Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,

Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3 Matt. 12:36 John 5:28-29 Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14

We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.

We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18

Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44 Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.

After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57 Acts 9:3-15 Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25

God bless,

RLW

JESUS said to the Jews: John 5:43-47KJV:

43 - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER(AN IMPOSTER - Who's is him?) shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Paul apostle prophesied about that IMPOSTOR, saying - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9 :

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (See Revelation 13:11-14)

John 1:11KJV - JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

Philippians 2:6 - 6 Who, being in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD:

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

Hi Brother S Spencer,

Thank you for the reply. That's interesting how two people can read the same verse and come up with different meanings.

So, I'm trying to find verses that say we're immediately saved the moment we decide to follow Jesus (before we're even judged).

Based on what I'm looking for you wrote the following:

" John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly."

But I read John 5:24 and it doesn't say anything about the timing of being saved. It does not say immediately or anything about "when" this happens and its not even implied as some assume. But if you keep reading at John 5:28-29 it adds a condition by saying after Jesus speaks and dead are raised that "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Some readers imply a sense of timing when reading something even though unstated. I do not believe the Bible implies timing if it is not specifically stated. I will share evidence why:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17 KJV

Adam and Eve ate the fruit and did not die immediately, but later. Their death in the form of mortality likely started when they ate this, but they did not physically die until many years later. Some claim they had a spiritual death, but that is not stated.

Another example is: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27 KJV

Some assume this means God already created females, but then in chapter 2 it says how Adam fell asleep and Eve was created. This is an example of how assuming timing when it is not stated is not correct. What this really is is a brief summary overview then chapter 2 goes into more detail about how it happened.

Likewise, John 5:24 doesn't say we're saved immediately.

Hi Adam,

Based on all of the scripture I have read, we do not receive "our salvation" or "our damnation" until Judgement Day.

John 5:28-29

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

2 Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

GB

Hi Adam.

John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.

Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".

Also see John 11:25-26.

There's physical death and there is spiritual death.

Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.

Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;

Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.

Romans 6:3-11.

Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!

This is there present condition.

He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"

If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.

God bless.

Yes Adam, these are a few important verses that I believe prove that a repentant sinner, seeking forgiveness & then being born again by God's Spirit, can be assured of salvation now & can never be lost. That the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the believer & perseveres with him/her to keep them saved & to warn & bring back those who fail in faith. Those who don't have assurance of salvation, probably are not familiar with the Scriptures, or have been taught that only perseverance & abiding by God's Commandments can they be saved, at least have any chance of getting approval at that final judgement day, or never been truly saved in the first place. Whereas, the one born again of God's Spirit will be given power to persevere & keep ALL of God's Commandments, & the avenue of repentance is there so that restitution & joy in a faithful God will be restored.

Ephesians 1:4,5 (God's choosing & predestining; His elect)

Ephesians 1:13,14 (Gift of the Holy Spirit; His Sealing & Guarantee till final redemption/reception of His child)

1 John 5:13 (we know that Eternal Life is our possession, not hoped for)

Romans 8:9,15,29,30,38,39 (nothing will separate us from God's Love - not from outside, nor from within, for we are His & will be led by His Spirit continually)

The Bible (part 2)

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Revelation 22:18,19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

These are just a sampling of the many verses that speak about the scriptures, the Bible, the Word of God. They should be examined both in their immediate context and the context of the entire Bible if we are to come to Truth regarding the true nature of the Bible.

David0921....Jesus is plainly telling us to search the scriptures in them you think you have eternal life but it is only them that testify of me....Which is the living word the H.G. that testifies of me.....David there is no eternal life in the scriptures, if there could have been eternal life in the scriptures then Jesus shed his blood in vain and the cross was just foolishness..... 2 Cor. 3:6 he has made us able ministers of the New Covenant not of the written word the letter a killer but of the spirit....Eternal life in only by his blood at. Calvary.....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.....We do not behold the scriptures the written words....WE only behold the lamb of God the living word that taketh away the sins of the world....And that book of life that he wrote with his own blood,....meaning living words....Living Spirits....We are not gonna be married to paper and ink the bible but only to Christ the living word.

.....The DEVIL reads the bible but that does not change his demonic Spirit....All of ISRAEL was sola scriptura...Bible only but Jesus tells them they were of their father the devil.....Its only by the blood of the lamb that we can be bornagain of his incorruptible seed....that liveth and abideth for ever....The living word which is the H.G. THE GIFT OF God....I love the kjv with all my heart....But it is only the living word the H.G. that is the gift of God...No eternal life in the scriptures per se.

Jesus said are there not 12 hrs in a day and 12 hrs in a night but if a man walks in the night he is gonna stumble.....David you are walking in the night when you think there is Eternal life in the scriptures the written words as John 5:39 tells us....Jesus tells us there is no eternal life in the scriptures the written words.....Eternal life in only by the New Covenant which is his blood he shed at Calvary....That resulted in the book in the right hand of the father THAT BOOK OF LIFE that Jesus wrote with his own.. blood

Ronald

I agree The word confirm does not mean make, it shows us the covenant already existed.

However that fits the antichrist and his mission. Anti here means "instead of" and it can also mean against.

The Jews is still looking for their Messiah till this day and that's the primary role of the Antichrist.

Jesus hints at this in John 5:43.

So let's parallel the notion with other scriptures concerning him.

2 Thessalonians 2:4

"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:8-12.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

These verses along with Daniel 9 emphasizes deception by the Antichrist.

Goodnight brother.

lemme ramble a bit about the just and the unjust....Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit..... Romans 9:8.... Flesh and blood are not the Children of God.....Its only the Children of Promise that are counted for that GOOD SEED....Who are the Children of Promise?... They are the gift of God the H.G.....Which is born of the spirit in US via his good seed...The LIVING WORD NOT THE WRITTEN WORD....As faith comes by hearing his good seed the living word that initiates a spiritual pregnancy.....B/C I have spoken these living words sorrows have filled your hearts a spiritual pregnancy ....A woman when she is in travail has sorrows but after the CHILD ( The H.G.) is COME HER SORROWS are turned into Joy... John 16:20.....The H.G. is he that is born of the spirit...The gift of God....An Israel of God.. Gal. 16:6...She brought forth aman child that is gona rule all nations Rev. 12 :5 kjv.....Which is the H.G. as no man can call Jesus the Christ without the H.G. that living word....Which is that Child of Promise that is gona be born in you....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME ME

Its only the living word the H.G. that testifies of Jesus....When he the spirit of truth is come he will testify of me which is the H.G.... John 15:22....Thats y we must be born again of an incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth for ever as Peter said....The living word which is spirit and life.....

..... John 5:39 .Thats y Jesus is saying Search the scriptures the written words in them you think you have eternal life but it is only them that testifies of me....Which is the H.G. THE LIVING WORD, that spirit of truth that testifies of me....Which is that New Covenant that he gave us by his blood at Calvary....The book in the right hand of the father that Jesus wrote with his own blood.....Whosoever was not found written in this book of life was cast into the lake of fire...As our God is a consuming fire..H.G. fire..

Hi David0921,

I know we have different understandings of this and I am probably in the minority but that is ok. To me, it hinges on whether the soul is mortal or immortal and I have not found any scripture that supports the soul is immortal when comparing all scriptures about the soul, (I hope that makes sense).

Like 1 Thess. 4:13-17 My understanding is Paul is trying to ensure the people their loved ones who believed in Jesus who had died (asleep) would not be left out of the resurrection when Jesus returns. "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." If we believe Jesus died and rose we who die before He returns will also rise (resurrect, awake) from our sleep (death).

"God will bring with him" seems to fit the picture in Jude 1:14-15, but does it agree with being resurrected? My understanding is 1 Thess. 4:17 The earth is round and those resurrected when Jesus returns will meet Him in the air and He brings those with Him down with Him, not going back up.

2 Cor. 5:6-8 We all look forward to being with Jesus but when will we be absent from this body? What is the resurrection of the dead? Resurrection is an awakening, our soul is who we are the essence of our being that is what God resurrects to either eternal life or death, 1 Cor. 15:35-55.

My understanding is our soul is not immortal our soul, that is who we are, and as our body, it is mortal. We will die/sleep until we are resurrected into our immortal body and that is when we will be free and absent from this fleshly body we have now and will be with the Lord.

My understanding is all who have lived will be resurrected John 5:28-29. We will be on the earth when it is made new not in heaven.

If we do not agree on this subject it is ok as long as we treat each other with love and inspire each other to study.

God bless,

RLW

Hi David0921,

Good discussion: my understanding of scripture is as yours, man will not be in the lake of fire for eternity, but also somewhat different. In Daniel 12:2 John 5:24-29 Revelation 20:11-15 we see all good, bad, and ugly will be resurrected so everyone will have a conscious existence to answer and be accountable on judgment day, the last day, and my understanding is that is Revelation 20:11-15.

Greek philosophy of the immortal soul has influenced the understanding of death so, if the soul is immortal and cannot die the burning in hell/lake of fire will be forever. Scripture says to me we are mortal, Romans 8:11 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 2 Corinthians 5:4. We see in Genesis 2:7 that man became a living soul, not a soul was placed in man, so when that breath of life/spirit is gone the body/soul is dead. The breath of life, Ecclesiastes 12:1-8 there will we be until the resurrection.

I could say more but in short, just for consideration, if there is eternal punishment, on resurrection day the unsaved will be given what scripture says only the saved will receive, an immortal body and eternal life? "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" So, the penalty for sin will be eternally over and done with, no more sin, and no more death for eternity, forever and ever.

God bless,

RLW

Heaven Part 2

In my last post; I talked about Peter. He was revealed who Christ was which could only have come from the Father ( Matt. 16:17).

The HOLINESS of God is talked about frequently; perhaps easiest remembered in Revelation 4:8-11 (also found in Isaiah 6:3).

When the Bible describes judgment; and hell viewed on earth such as in Isaiah 66 there is no appreciation of the wicked for His Holiness or any other attributes. Our life as believers is hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and the verse also talks about how we must be "crucified with Christ". Those who believe have truly "passed from death to life" ( John 5:24 with further insights in 1 John as well). So that is the difference; we have either the eternal state of our spiritual condition to be in our fallen sin which is totally blind to His glory and only focused on self; or we are new creations which are now able to glorify God in heaven (and we start now by being seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Therefore we begin now; to rule and reign with Him in a sense-it is a done deal as Romans 8:30; and Ephesians 1:13 states.

Isaiah 53:11 states that He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied; quoting a verse from an entire CHAPTER on Christ which is the famous chapter Jews like to ignore because of clear Messianic descriptions matching that of Christ. His satisfaction therefore will be in ruling and reigning WITH us; with the sons of glory (sort of combining Hebrews 2:10 with the concept of Romans 8:17.) He did it to please the Father first and foremost; but also of course has been given all authority on heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18). It is strange to conceive ourselves in a similar way; but nonetheless being part of the firstfruits we also suffer for a time then are glorified and rewarded ( 1 Peter 5:10).

Obviously; as we look to the concept of varying amounts of rewards for either the wicked (punishment) we have the same idea in regard to the saved. ( 1 Cor. 3:15). more in part3

There is one who Jesus said spoke truth. we have examples: John 5:31-38; 2 Peter 1:21

Jesus wanted his 12 apostles including Apostle Paul to speak about him. This is why we have

these beautiful letters from the scriptures. These letters should not be distorted to fit ones own Selfish purpose

or view. what is written or said in the scriptures benefits us all if we want it. 2 Timothy 3:16,17

Hey Jimbob gbu my man....Yes i will gladly show you a scripture that proves that Jesus is not the written word ( the scriptures)... John 5:39....Jesus says search the SCRIPTURES ( the written words ) in them you think that you have Eternal life...But it is only them that testifies of me....Which are the living words....When he the spirit of truth is come he will testify of me John 16:13 John... 15:26...which is the H.G. THE LIVING WORD....That book in the right and of the father....THE BOOK OF LIFE....LIVING WORDS..The CHILDREN OF PROMISE..Jimbob if Eternal life were in the written words the bible....Then Jesus shed his blood in vain and the cross was just foolishness....God has something much greater for his ppl then just a bible...A KINGDOM....Peter said where shall we go lord thou has the words of eternal life....which is that book in the right hand of the father that Jesus wrote with is own blood...But without Calvary the Cross there wd NOT have been a book of life of living words, living seeds to multiply Christ in humanity the seeds of the sower are the result of the book of life....Written words the bible cd not accomplish what Jesus did at Calvary....Hope you see this Jim...My words are spirit and life Jesus....That good seed is the living words of God...The Wheat is a baby Christ a living being....Simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom....Thats y he has to know us....Child is th H.G..

Jesus plainly tells us no man can come unto me unless my father that has sent me draw him...which is the living word the H.G....The contents of that book of life in the right hand of the father...The book of life....The woman in Rev. 12:5 does not give birth till the book of life is opened....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( the H.G.) you will in NO WISE enter there in....Her Child is the H.G. the spirit of truth that is gonna reprove this whole world of Sin.Righteousness and Judgement a living being that has to be born in us....

Hiya David Gbu....But John 1:1 is the living word not the written word....David it was the living word Christ Jesus that made all things not a bible the written word.... 2 Cor. 3:6 He has made us able ministers of the New Covenant the spirit not the letter as the letter is a killer but its the spirit that gives life....Thats y Churchanity is dead they don't know the difference between the written word and the living word....The written word is not God its just a love letter from God but its the living word that is Christ the bridegroom the 1 and only living Word....We do not wana be married to paper and ink but to Spirit and life as my words are spirit and life....Wake up David.....Ya need to understand that God is much more then paper and ink....Yes we all love the KJV Bible but it answers to the lesser light....Its only Christ Jesus that is the light of the world....Not the bible...Thats y Jesus was saying are there not 12 hrs in a day and 12 hrs in a night...but if a man walks in the night he is gona stumble....You are walking in the night when ya think that the bible is the light of the world....Thats y Jesus had to shed his blood at Calvary that he might bring in a New Covenant not according to the old covenant the written word...The letter a killer....Simply b/c the letter has no blood content....Thus cannot remove sin...Only the lamb of God had the blood to initiate this new covenant at Calvary....The LIVING WORD...When he had taken the cup he said this is the New Covenant in my blood drink ye all of it...The N.C. IS THE LIVING WORD.

David there are zillions of bibles in this world but this world is in deep darkness....Thats y God wanted a New Covenant by the blood of Jesus the living WORD... John 5:39 Search the scriptures ( written words ) in them you think you have eternal life but it is them that testify of me...Which is the H.G. the living word a living being the Gift of God....The bible the written word is not the gift of God. only Christ is that GIFT..

Hey S Spencer,

Well done, other verses have been not found in the original text as in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I will not list the verses, and the one you covered in 1 John 5:7 used to support the Trinity. That doctrine has been discussed before and considered undiscussable by most and is taught that salvation is dependent on belief in it.

We can cut and divide verses or words like Jews and Gentiles, their meaning when they were written, and the meaning they have today. Jew was a slang word started in Babylon for people of the tribe of Judah, and Gentile meant nation or nations, not a person. Many other meanings of words from Hebrew, Greek, Greek mythology, and Latin translated into English.

As you ended with, the meaning and our understanding of scripture do not come from us, affected by our feelings, desires, and what we have been taught whether it was true or false. If we do not open our hearts and ears to hear and receive understanding given by God and the authority given to Jesus through the Holy Spirit our understanding may not be the Truth.

Thanks for your post.

God bless,

RLW

Thank you brother S. Spencer for sharing that article. I have earlier read some arguments for & against the inclusion of this verse in the Bible, but certainly not as extensive as what you've presented here. As you probably know, I do use this 1 John 5:7 portion as a reference in support of the triunity of God as I believe there's no reason not to as it certainly doesn't negate any other portion of Scripture that speaks of the Nature of Jesus & the Holy Spirit within the Godhead. As well, other Bible translations have accepted this verse into their Bibles (e.g. NKJV, Douay-Rheims, LSV, Webster's, & YLT: all esteemed works). Even though this extensive research work has been done to show us how & when this verse was included in the KJV & others, for any of us to further argue the matter would be unfruitful, for lack of expertise. If someone believes that this verse is not to be read as part of the Bible, then they have some good reason for doing so. Likewise, I think it is equally a good reason to keep it & read it for no harm can come of it but good use made of it for both personal & ministry use & appreciation. Blessings.