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Pt 2.
I didn't know we was debating your interpretation of this topic of election.
You never started it!
I was just pointing out that the verses you selected in your series of God's attributes you are presenting to springboard the election topic is mis used.
This was your opening statement when you began this series.
"Here is my next posting to follow the post of last month. Again, i welcome your comments, corrections, or differeing thoughts.
You also asked me to explain my position as you have done. That will help you understand more fully my viewpoint.
That's what I thought I was doing.
This is a debated subject and rely on scripture to be put in its proper context and a correct view of God' and his nature.
There's a lot more I am going to say on this important topic and on Jeremiah 31.
Replacement theology and how they the two co-exist in this topic.
However I will take that to a separate thread.
I will also await your response that you mentioned and I will reply back.
However we can cut it short here if you would like to so it won't be any back and forth.
Blessings.
So, in the case of 2 Chronicles 3:17 (and 1 Kings 7:21), it could well be that the names of Jachin & Boaz were given to them for a particular reason by their parents. Now here in these passages, King Solomon wants to reflect the importance of these two pillars (which are certainly outstanding by their position, height, & proximity to those passing by the temple) & so he designates these names as we see here.
In Hebrew, Jachin (Yakin) means "to be established or be firm": maybe representing the God-appointed construction of this structure & its endurance and longevity ( 1 Kings 8:17-20) by Solomon. And Boaz, traditionally taken to mean "in strength & in swiftness". We could only imagine how such meanings could fit here; as Boaz himself was a man of great character & influence, ready to meet the needs of the family (esp. concerning Ruth), could it be that Solomon was envisioning God's Presence & Power displayed here, even as God was ever-present even as the children of Israel gathered outside & within the confines of the Tabernacle of the Congregation & dealt speedily with them, whether for their needs or in judgment? Just a few thoughts for you to consider - others here may share their understanding. Blessings.
Forgive me for responding to this post so late.
I held off from reading it until now.
I don't read these debated messages until I'm ready to focus on them.
Firstly, Thanks for responding.
Jeremiah 31:3 is not written "TO" anyone but Israel! It is a specific message "TO" them.
It doesn't apply to us as you stated, "God has loved us (His chosen) with an everlasting love"
Here is how the chapter starts.
Jeremiah 31:1-2.
Everything is written for our learning but everything is not written TO us.
God is telling Israel why he is going to do that which is mentioned in the following verses.
Jeremiah 31:4-7. and then-
8) Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
Now look at verse 10! It's written to you and I and the rest of the world!
10) HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD, O YE NATIONS, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
This is future!
It Parallels with Jeremiah 16:14-15.
What you and I should take from that is that God keeps his promises.
If you were to go by what I seem to imply, God certainly cannot exercise His wrath or judgement on sinners because He loves the world (humans). This is not biblically sound and if it is biblically true, all people would be saved, but Scripture does not teach this.
Gigi that's far from anything I ever said.
I said, "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" and the whosoever in these passages implies a invitation to EVERYONE!
I will need more space.
See part 2.
Yes, it is the same. The prophecy is in Isaiah 27:12-13. It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people from the four corners of the earth. This is very important because that's a prophecy that the Jews looked for.
It says He is going to gather them together, his elect (the Jews), from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.
Hope this helps.
I have a question. In 2 Chronicles 3:17, why did Solomon name the pillars of the temple Jachin and Boaz? I'm praying about this now, and I'm looking through the scriptures. I find Boaz from The Book of Ruth and I find Jachin as a priest and as an original son of Simeon. Any ideas? Ruckman's commentary points out the original "pillars" are found in Exodus 13:21-22. I thought that was a really great observation.
Ephesians 4 Verse 1
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" Jesus Christ wants your eyes, ears, to obey God-Speaking,Actions,Attention of Communications. Seeing one another as equal terms also used fair and nice. Not to be a circumstance Quoted alot by Christian Devotion City of Lynwood&Los Angeles County.
Ephesians 4 Verse 2
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
"knowing Jesus Christ the truth, way and the life. The only way to live and meek.You can't do it without God. To have peace no evil hands toward another. All things are possible ( Matthew 19:26 KJV).God gives grace Ephesians 2:1-3 to abound a life of your own and Christian Church.
Ephesians 4 Verse 3
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
"Showing Jesus Christ is God the truth-produces oneness to all the world.Needs manifestation to the world for all people can be saved from eternal death and judgement.Jesus Christ is God the bread of life(John6:35)"
Ephesians 4 Verse 4
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" Jesus Christ is God only to obey him."Speaking,Actions,Attention of Communications."You can have faith, believe and guaranteed results to have what God says he wants you to have.-Jesus Christ Himself Supreme Authority."
Ephesians 4 Verse 5
My Respond:
John 14:6 Jesus is the way, truth, life.
Ephesians 4 Verse 6
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" Language you can understand, ruler, you belong to God and God is in you.
Word Spoken and Written by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
I have uploaded your parts 1-9 into my documents so I can better understand your flow of ideas and to think about my responses.
I am currently working on the next section of my posts and want to stay on that, so I do not intend to go back and forth on matters with anyone at length. But I will pray for guidance on what I am to post specifically to you and what will simply go into the next postings.
I hope you can understand this. I want to stay on track of what it seems to me to present here and not get tangled up in prolonged debates, although I think it is a good thing for believers to engage with each other in serious debates. So, with that said, I will most likely post a further response to you tomorrow after I have re-read all of your posts and consider my responses, if any, at this point.
As usual, I thank you for your input. We are "iron sharpening iron" here and my hope is that others will be edified with what we have to say to one another as we search the Scriptures for knowledge and understanding on these topics. I am most interested in you (and others) posting as you have, laying out your viewpoint in a reasoned and coherent way. This allows others to search the Scriptures for themselves on the ideas we present as we post how we understand Scriptures to reveal on these important topics.
Have a good night. I certainly hope that the weather in your state and area is improving. We are having a rather balmy Jan. here in the NW with temps in the 50's some days. Our plants are thinking spring is coming and beginning to sprout. But we usually have a colder end of January-early February, so I hope they do not grow to much to then get damaged by freezing weather conditions. But I hope to get outside and do some clean up around the yard from the tree that was felled a few weeks ago and other winter gardening/lawn care. The rainy Nov. and Dec. has kept me from doing these things. I am looking forward to being outside in the fresh air.
I'll be trying to get back to it by this weekend.
God bless
Is the ' Word ' of John chapter one , the same as the Spirit of God in Genesis chapter one verse 2 ? Is that possible given that ' all things were made by him ' ? It fits with Jesus being the Word made flesh as Jesus was filled with God's Holy Spirit without measure . Therefore Jesus is the Spirit of God made flesh . John chapter one verse 14 : And the Word was made flesh , and dwelt among us , ( and we beheld his glory as if the only begotten of the Father ,) . So the Word of John chapter one refers to the Spirit of God in Genesis chapter one and the Word was made flesh of John chapter one verse 14 is the man Jesus , who received the Spirit without measure , John chapter three verse 34 .
Luke chapter twenty four verse 45 .
Hebrews 4:14-5:10 KJV COGIC WORSHIP 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Jesus Christ is God. Jesus that makes intercedes on our behalf. I Worship God of forgiveness of sins,grace, holy-set free from sin, repentance. A God that makes you want to obey him and be like him. A God knee to bow and confess- Philippians 2:11
A God of prayer to do his will. A God of submission " My interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY :mind,speaking,actions,attention of communications." God giving your confirmations- some definitions consecrated and ordained that is eternal life.
West Angeles Church Consecration Calendar
Isaiah 41 Verse 10
My interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY:
"God doing everything he says he will for you of his Word examples such as complete,confirmation, comfortable whic is recieveing Jesus Christ in your heart( Romans 10:9-10) to believe and speak it by mouth faith of God to have and gain confidence to resist- James 4:7 and not covetousness. God gives abilities and makes you able to do it. Examples to do it are speaking, actions, attention of communications.
I Pray to God to be complete, God giving me confirmation in life and security. No challenges me having faith identity I John 3:2 KJV
Word Spoken and Written by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
2 Corinthians 7:4 - Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
The Greek word for boldness, PARESIA, has to do with confidence. It has to do with speaking openly in public without fear. Great is my confidence of speech toward you. Great is my boasting of you. The word glorying is actually the word boasting. I am filled with comfort, and that's the word encouragement. I am exceeding joyful in all of our tribulations, and that's the word THLIPSIS for stress. He's not just joyful in stressful situations. He's exceeding joyful!
2 Corinthians 7:5 - For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.
The word for fightings is the literal word for physical combat. He's making reference here to some of the physical attacks that came against him while traveling and while ministering.
2 Corinthians 7:7 - And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the more.
There are three things that Titus told Paul that was a blessing to Paul when he told us of your earnest desire, literally their desire upon Paul. They wanted to see Paul again. He says your mourning, that is, lamentation over your sin when he told us you were mourning over your sin.
The fervent mind is one word in Greek and it means to boil. They had a hot desire to get back with Paul again because they received his letter and saw that they were in error. Paul says, so that I rejoiced the more. Not just to see Titus, and not just the fact that Titus was ministered to by the people in Corinth, but that the people in Corinth wanted to see Paul again. And they were mourning over their sins, and they were back to having a fervent desire to be taught again.
2 Corinthians 7:2 Receive us; we have wronged no man, we have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man.
He says Receive us. The word receive in the Greek text (CHORESATE) literally means to make room. Make room for us. He's making reference back to where he mentioned in Chapter 6 about having enlarged my heart to you. He says I've opened my heart to you. Now I'm calling on you to make room for us in your heart.
And he says three things that he did not do to them to emphasize that there's no reason for them to not open up to him, except that they're influenced by false teachers. First of all, he says we have wronged no man. The word wronged is the word injustice. In other words, we have treated no one unjustly.
Secondly, we have corrupted no man. This corruption, PHTHEIRO, has to do with teaching and speaking. In Ephesians Chapter 5, Paul always used it to do with let your speech be with grace, and not in corruption to the hearers. So, he says we haven't corrupted anyone with our teaching.
And thirdly, we have defrauded no man. The word defraud has to do with covetousness or desiring to want what other people have. We'll see later on in this letter that he says we are not pursuing you because of what you have. We're pursuing you because of your soul. So, he says we haven't treated anyone unjustly. We have corrupted no man with false teaching. We haven't defrauded anyone by coveting the things that they have.
2 Corinthians 7:3 - I speak not this to condemn you: for I have said before, that ye are in our hearts to die and live with you.
The phrase "with you," goes with both die and live in the Greek text. What he's saying is that they and he are so attached, they are at such one with each other that if they live, he lives, and if they die, he dies. He's not going to turn around and walk away from them. He's attached!
2 Corinthians 6:12 - Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
You are not straitened in us, and the word straightened means limited, but you are limited in your own bowels. And that's what the word means, SPLUNKNOS in Greek, which is the intestines. And the Greeks used the inner organs of the body to represent deep down compassion, rather than the surface.
So, he says you've closed up your bowels of compassion. You've limited yourself. My heart is wide open. I'm sharing with you, my heart. I'm not getting it back!
2 Corinthians 6:15 - And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
The word concord is a Greek word from where we get our word Symphony from. It means agreement. SUMPHONE is the word.
2 Corinthians 7:1 - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
The word holiness is the word sanctification. He says you've been sanctified. You've been set apart for Christ. And we keep trying in the human social to cross the line and be socially joined and get our social needs met. But at the same time Paul is saying that you cannot compromise your walk with the Lord by getting involved in situations and with people that are going to influence your relationship with Christ and affect your effectiveness in your walk with Christ.
Therefore, perfect, mature the sanctification. We are sanctified the very moment that God's Spirit comes into our spirit. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul told the Christians in Thessalonica to walk in your sanctification. We are to cleanse ourselves and do this in the perfecting of sanctification, maturing in the lifestyle of sanctification, drawing closer to Christ.
2 Corinthians 6:5 - In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
In stripes, that is beatings. In imprisonments. In tumults, which are riots. In labours, and that's just physical working to the point of exhaustion. In watchings. This is just a King James way of saying going without sleep.
In fastings; and I think it's kind of interesting that Paul always used the word fasting to say to go without food. He never presents the fact that if he didn't have food, it's because he's going without food, and it must be time to fast because God didn't provide food. I think that's fascinating! So, in all of these conditions, if you find yourself in them, give no offence, so the ministry is not blamed.
2 Corinthians 6:6 - By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
By pureness. This is a word associated with sanctification. It means to be morally separate and pure. Through knowledge. Through longsuffering, that is, patience with people, slow in human reaction. Through kindness. That's the word for usefulness.
Through the Holy Spirit. And you're probably thinking "wait a minute now!" It's no misuse of the Holy Spirit. It's either through the Spirit of God or it's not. Don't try to do your own thing and say it's the Spirit of God. By love unfeigned. The word unfeigned means hypocrisy. This is through unfeigned and un-hypocritical love, love that's not acting. It's got to be genuine!
2 Corinthians 6:10 - As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
As sorrowful, and yet always rejoicing; The word rejoicing means satisfaction. Joy in the bible is not a "happy feeling." It means to be satisfied.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
The word earnest is ARRABON, which means guarantee. This is a guarantee of our inheritance. He has given us His Spirit. Please note the value that Paul places on the human. He considers that when it's time for him to die, he just torn down camp and left. He just packed up the tent!
It's just a place for us to live in while we're here. But there's going to be a new house to live in, a new body in heaven. In the meantime, God has given us His Spirit. He shows again the treasure that which is most valuable is the Spirit of God that's holding this tent, this clay dirt vessel together.
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
Again, this is what's called the BEMA seat. This is not the Great White Throne Judgment. The BEMA seat is a judgment for believers. Non-believers will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.
2 Corinthians 6:1 - We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
The word vain means empty or for no reason.
2 Corinthians 6:2 - (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
In the Greek text, the word for succoured means to help.
2 Corinthians 6:4 - But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
The word patience is the word endurance. In afflictions (THLIPSIS, pressure or stress). In necessities. This is that straight narrow. You find yourself being closed in on. In distresses. This is the word for no way out.
Part 9.
Spiritual Birth right elected by promise over natural or Birth right by the flesh.
This WAY would develope the children of promise.
Romans 9:4-11.
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9) For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10) And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
In Romans 9:11-12 Paul is expanding on the Point he was making with Isaac in Romans 9:6-9.
This deals with birth rights. Not by man's will nor the physical first born but by Promise God's "Elected Way"
There's a pattern shown here throughout the scripture ,
God exercises his program apart from man's traditions.
God giving the Spiritual birth right to the second born instead of the natural first born as seen with Ephraim and Manasseh in Genesis 48:17-18.
Also, Christ came through none of the loins of the natural first born.
Romans chapters 9,10 and 11 centers around Future Israel.
Blessings
Part 8.
God chose Israel to be a light to the nations, a kingdom of priests, and to showcase his redeeming grace and righteous judgment. Isaiah 42:6-7
God chose a man (Abraham) to enter an unconditional covenant with and to perform an oath with whom he would make a father of many nations by faith.
Galatians 3:17-29.
Genesis 15:1-12
Genesis 22:15-18
"And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Every time Israel angered the Lord; he remembered his oath to Abraham.
Here is Deuteronomy 7:8 reads (A verse you referenced)
But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
That oath and covenant to Abraham still stands today, however look at the repetitive condition of throughout the years.
Deuteronomy 8:19-20.
Only thing here is elected is THE WAY AND MEANS through a promise to salvation by faith.
This is what Roman 9 is talking about.
See Part 9
Romans 9:4-11.
PT 7
Whosoever will come" is a phrase that is often used to extend an open invitation, implying that anyone who wants to participate is welcome.
It appears in the Bible in Revelation 22:17, which says, "And let him that is athirst come; and whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely".
The verse is interpreted to mean that Jesus offers eternal life in Christ to everyone who hears the word of the cross.
The "thirsty" in the verse symbolizes a deep spiritual longing or need, and the invitation to "come" is open to all who recognize their spiritual need.
This is a appeal to Everyone, not just the elect!
Everyone is given the light to recognize their spiritual need. The issue is that men loves Darkness.
Jn 1:7-9.
Jesus came for the lost sheet of Israel. Jesus Christ ministry began in Israel. They were blind to the gospel because of nonbelief.
Jn 1:10-12.
That brings us to Romans.
You can't interpret the passages in Romans 9 with the mindset that it applies to the church or salvation!
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
This speaks of un merited Grace and chosen WAY is given by the word of promise apart from BIRTH RIGHT.
You have to draw your conclusion from Romans 9:6-12 to get the proper context and use some of the OT passages as reference.
You referenced Deuteronomy 7:6-8 as a "GOD'S FAVOR IS UPON HIS PEOPLE WHOM HE CHOSE, NOT BECAUSE THEY CHOSE HIM" and Therefore, God chose Israel as His favored people, because from them, the Messiah would be born and live and die to save those God chose to save from pre-creation.
I would say that is only partially right.
This is not a passage that can be used as an example for electing a people for salvation.
God chose A MAN to enter an unconditional covenant with and to perform an oath with whom he would make a father of many nations
See 8
Part 6.
Predestinated.
Ephesians 1:3-4Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
IN CHRIST.
I believe This speaks of Christ being the vehicle that was determined before the foundation of the world in which men would be saved. I believe it is Christ who is predestinated!
I believe God looks in his rear view mirror at the future.
He knows who will receive Christ.
I also believe John 3:16-20 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than LIGHT, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the LIGHT, neither cometh to the LIGHT, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the LIGHT, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I also believe John 1:6-9
"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, WHICH LIGHTETH EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD.
Verse 12!
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
See Part 7
Predestination.
Predestination is never used in reference to unsaved people. God has never predestinated anybody to be lost.
If you are lost, it is because you have rejected God's remedy.
It is like a dying man to whom the doctor offers curing medicine. "If you take this, it'll heal you." The man looks at the doctor in amazement and says, "I don't believe you." Now the man dies and the doctor's report says he died of a certain disease, and that's accurate. But may I say to you, there was a remedy, and he actually died because he didn't take the remedy. God has provided a remedy. Let me repeat, God has never predestined anybody to be lost. That's where your free will comes in, and you have to determine for yourself what your choice will be. Predestination refers only to those who are saved. What it actually means is that when God starts out with one hundred sheep, He is going to come through with one hundred sheep. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" ( Rom. 8:28-29). Dr. R. A. Torrey used to say that this is a wonderful pillow for a tired heart. Those who are called according to His purpose are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. We're talking now about saved people. Romans goes on to explain how this is done. "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" ( Rom. 8:30). When God starts out with one hundred sheep, He will come through with one hundred sheep.
You must admit that that is a good percentage.
J Vernon Mcgee.
See Part 6
Part 4.
If we say you don't know why or how God chooses his elect, how can you say "you do believe that our election is not because God looked forward in history to see that we would choose to believe these things on our own or not?
Was not he using foreknowledge to choose you before the foundation of the world?
He knew you would sin right? yes!
When did he find that out?
When did he decide to send you a savior?
We know that God operates by his foreknowledge just by examining "When" Christ was ordained to be the substitute Lamb of God! BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD! 1 Peter 1:19-20.
Also, when were we chosen? Before the foundation of the world! Ephesians 1:4.
There was a plan of redemption set forth before the curse was pronounce on the Earth and before the World began!
Apparently God knew Adam would sin.
You mentioned "Paul speaks clearly in Romans that no one is righteous or seeks God or can please God, being dead in sin and blind to the gospel of grace.
Gigi Paul is referencing the Un generated man as he stands without the Holy Spirit and him refusing the Life and light of the new birth which reveals the things of God.
This speaks of how he stands today as well as back then.
Paul is not making reference to the condition of man determining on when and how God made his Choice.
This is reward and Judgment which means there's conditions needed met and man couldn't meet those requirements!
Man had to believe and receive Christ.
The whosoever is an invitation to the world!
This is how it reads.
FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
See Part 5
About your inquiry about the "anathema" that Paul says in 1 Cor:16-22, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha."
There two ancient greek words that are very similar, that they are both wtitten in Engl as "anathema" but in grk that "e" is written with a different grk vowel. The first is pronounced in grk as "a-na'-thee-ma" and it means something which is dedicated to God, eg a sacrifice or a gift to God. The second (which is the one written in 1 Cor) is pronounced in grk as "a-na'-theh-ma" and it had several meanings in anc grk. 1. something that is offered to God for distruction, eg a sacrifice which will be burned, 2. people or things (including cities) that were to be distructed. Often these two are the meaning of the word in the OT, 3. something that is separated for distruction, ...
In Romans 9:3, "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:" the precise translation is "that myself to be separated (for distruction) from Christ".
In 1 Cor 16:22 many translate it as "if any man does not love Lord Jesus Christ let him be separated for distruction (if he eventually doesn't believe in Him and repent in his life). And this seems to be the right interpretation of that verse.
And eventually in the following centuries the word anathema came to mean "a curse/cursed person/thing", and in the church terminology the "excommunication(separation) from the church".
Part 3
God righteousness also means he's fair and just.
We all have sinned and we "ALL" deserve our punishment.
God is merciful so he sent the Lamb of God to sacrifice. "Not to take away "sins" from man individually
He came to take away the SIN "that is the penalty of sin" John 1:29 reads "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (notice sin is singular)
1 John 2:2 we see "sins" is used. It's Plural! ( And he is the propitiation for our "SINS":
I believe this is because of the repeated charges against us because sin is still present with us. We have a great lawyer!
Look at what else verse 2 says AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD!
God's atonement is not limited!
There's a portion of 2 Peter 2:1 that reads "even "DENYING" the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
These people are not saved!
But the Lord's purchase Peter designates applies to them if they would accept it!
This proves that the atonement was not limited!
The synonym for fair is Just! That's fair!
Quote from J Vernon Mcgee on John 6:37.
Election and free will are both in this verse. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" states a truth, and that is election. But wait a minute! and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" is also true, and "him that cometh to me" is free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him. You and I are down here, and we don't see into the machinery of heaven. I don't know how God runs that computer of election, but I know that He has given to you and to me a free will and we have to exercise it.
See Part 4
Jeremiah 31:3 is the verse I meant.
Thank you for sharing a bit of your viewpoint.
Indeed, God does love the world. He loves all of His creation. And I did say that He does bestow common grace and mercy upon all humanity. Otherwise, we all would be consumed and destroyed the first time we actively sin. God has compassion on sinful man in many ways. However, Romans 1:18 does teach that God's wrath is upon all wickedness in those who suppress the truth. basically sinners. If I were to go by what you seem to imply, God certainly cannot exercise His wrath or judgement on sinners because He loves the world (humans). This is not biblically sound and if it is biblically true, all people would be saved, but Scripture does not teach this.
I said in my writing that God's SAVING grace and mercy and love is given to the elect, but not to those He did not choose for salvation. If you are of the Arminian persuasion you would be aware that they teach about God's prevenient grace and also saving grace. I agree that God's grace comes to humans in different ways with differing effects as Arminius taught. But I am not Arminian in my thinking. I used to be for many decades, because that was all I really knew. But when I began to examine its teachings against Scripture, I moved away from that.
You said that I cannot attribute something that is for Israel for Christians. This is a tenet of dispensationalism, but is not from the Bible unless you can give me a Scripture that teaches so.
I know that you had some other questions for me. However, I do not wish to get into a back and forth, picking apart each others' viewpoints. I would much prefer that you do as I did-study these topics according to what Scripture says and then present your developed viewpoint on this forum so that others can read both viewpoints and go to Scriptures to see which one better explains what Scriptures do teach.
I appreciate that you are engaging with me. May the truth win out overall.