Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2496

What verse day not to

Dable with Alchemists and Barristers and what Book

Carlos, I realize that this subject is being addressed by Adam also, so I'll not duplicate too much.

To state, at the outset, I don't believe that the Genesis account is allegorical. If that were intended to be so by God, then we would be all over the place as to what is allegorical or not, are there metaphors also being used, etc. I would rather accept the account as factual & stand before God on that position, than see 'things' in the account that are supposed to be representative elsewhere or indeed untrue. So if one holds to this position (a factual one) & then says I also believe in Rev 13:1 that it speaks of a literal beast coming out of the sea, even though it clearly doesn't, then I would rather accept his belief than presuppose that some of the creation account is allegorical.

Whether it took time for vegetation to grown in Eden or was accomplished in an instant by the Word of God is only speculation. And "why it takes so long for God to rescue us from sin?" Well, we are in God's Plan & it no doubt includes 2 Pet 3:9 & Rom 5:6 (about Christ being sent at the appointed time in God's Plan). So, God doesn't need to do all things over a period of time - there is room for His instantaneous response, as I see the days of creation & entrance of sin into man & world. And using our venerable scientists timeline of the age of the universe (e.g. 13 billion yrs old), is anything but factual but based on guesswork: primarily by studying the oldest stars & measuring the rate of expansion of the universe. And what is the basis of their observations? Man's present & limited knowledge of the universe & through which all his determinations are made. I have little regard to such 'findings' where his studies & measurements are based on finite & undefined judgements. I think that we would be better served by them not making such non-provable predictions.

Finally, I won't even try to discuss the actuality of the two trees, pillars, etc. I think you know my position.

God is not slack concerning His promises, as some men count slackness. Not willing any should perish but " all" come to repentance. A genuine love of God and a distaste for things in this world is gain by accepting Christ love for us. God created us in love, nothing in this world can seperate you from God's love, be encouraged. Trust God's love for you. Heavenly Father your daughter is in need of Christ divine intercession, provide the power of " Your Glory" to give her peace, meet her where she is. Remove the demonic forces that surrounds her. Remove the strength of all her weakness heal her heart, mind & body. Holy Spirit dwell in her. We humbly ask in the name & blood of Jesus.

Maybe like the twelve wells as well, have to do with the twelve tribes, upon their return back to Israel

Spot on!!!

Mary, that guy you refer to in Mt 26:34 was Peter, a disciple of Jesus. It happened during the final moments before Jesus would be taken to Pilate & then judged worthy of death on a cross (for no crime that he committed). So Jesus was with all His disciples eating during the Passover & they then joined Him going to Gethsemane to pray. It was here that Jesus looked at Peter & told him that before the morning arrived (at the third crowing of the rooster), he would deny Christ, i.e. denying any knowledge or association with Jesus, because he would love his own life more than the Saviour. Then you can see the fulfilment of Jesus' words to Peter in the same chapter, verses 69-75. Then when Peter heard the cock crow the third time, he realized Jesus' words to him earlier that evening, & he became extremely remorseful for his denial of Jesus Whom he loved.

If you have questions on this or any passage, do write here, as it's important for you to know what the Bible says, as it contains God's Message to us. And the most important message is that we are all sinners, who probably would have denied Jesus just as Peter did, & that God's Love is extended to us through the giving of His Son to die for our sins & in our stead. Acceptance of this Truth & faith in Jesus means that God then receives us as His Own & will not condemn us for our past sins. May God help you Mary, as you read from His Word.

color matters nothing in God's eyes, all people have suffering and sorrow, but God is with us all He sees it, He will deliver all of us from it. God tell us to look forward, not to look back. God's not about race. He created us all, we are one in Christ, He loves us. Today we have drifted from God's truth, and church leaders need to step up on this matter. We are to love as Christ loved us one to another that's it. God Bless

Jan, it is wonderful that He deals with us as a loving father would on Earth ( Heb 12:5-11) & not as a tyrant lording it over us for our many sins & weaknesses. We always notice that His dealings with us are gentle, patient, & imploring. Conviction of that sin is the first sign of the Spirit speaking to our spirit that all is not well & the Mercy Seat is available for us. How privileged & blessed we are to be His precious children.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

CAUGHT UP

Is the phrase you might search

Just further comments to your reply to my first page: I believe in a pre-Trib. Rapture, in case that wasn't clear in my statements. However, I also feel that some good cases are there to support the other views, so I'm not dogmatic about this as I am about other 'Truths'.

1. Yes, I'm aware of our woes: the normal woes (some from the Enemy), the discipline of God to His children, & the Great Wrath of God upon the world. My examples of the saving of Noah & the children of Israel, were to show that God removes His children when His Anger is poured upon the world. You can call it 'protected' from His Wrath & as I see it both 'protected' & 'removal' are signified here.

2. True, many believers (& Israel) suffered terribly over the centuries & are still experiencing suffering, torture & martyrdom today, but this is not God's Wrath. This can come to any of us, especially to those "who live godly in Christ Jesus".

3. Again True, Harpazo & Parousia are together in the same verse, but the problem is that one looks at Harpazo as part of Christ's Second Coming & the other, as part of Christ's Coming, pre-Trib, for His Saints. Then the question: when do the dead in Christ rise? How many resurrections are there? Again, if there are two (post Christ), then does the Rapture make it a third resurrection? No, the Rapture is still part of the Mystery of the Coming of Christ: that this coming would be for His Church to remove them from the Great Wrath of God. No child of God is seen as having to experience God's Great Wrath - indeed, why should we suffer if we are His Children? But if we do wrong then we can expect His chastening ( Heb 12:5-11), but not to be a part of His Anger upon the world of unbelievers. This wouldn't make sense.

4. I agree, the word 'Remain' could be used as 'Survive' the Tribulation. However, the same could be said, if God's Wrath is never poured upon His own, then the remaining ones are those living & waiting during the 'Great Translation'.

I was busy today. Got to babysit tomorrow :) I can't believe many of you spent all day tearing into Genesis and Revelation again. No one mentioned the LET US scriptures or Gen. 3:22 ONE OF US. The Godhead speaking to each other.

There are two Trees! The KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; and The Tree of Life (which refers to Jesus because he offers Eternal Life.

3:22. And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as One of US, to know good and evil: and now lest he put forth his hand and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever.

God set a flaming sword to keep the Tree of Life. It's location now: Revelation 22:2

When Adam & Eve were created they were spiritually connected to God. When they disobeyed and ate the fruit, that connection was severed. How angry was God? In verse 21, He made them clothing.

God is the Alpha (beginning) and the Omega ( the ending). He knows everything. He doesn't cause pain and suffering. People bring it on themselves. Or they listen to the satanic I WILL, who at that moment had the deed to the earth. Adams failure in the garden as a son of God, put that responsibility on Jesus. He won the deed back on the Cross. Now he is a defeated foe awaiting the final battle as written in Revelation.

The only way we can be made spiritually alive to God is through His son, Jesus Christ! You must be born again and Receive the Holy Spirit; be sealed; be baptized!

Has anybody asked the Holy Spirit for a gift? 1 Corinthians 12:31: COVET EARNESTLY the BEST GIFTS.

HOLY SPIRIT GIFTS:

Romans 11:29, 12: all of it.

1 Corinthians 12: all of it.

Your Life as a Christian will bloom when you are tight with the Holy Spirit; who is God and many other qualities. When you ask Him to come into your life & kick his shoes off... you will fall deeply and reverently, in love with Him. If you ask Him to search you and take out anything that is not like Jesus, you need to be serious and reverent.

There is not going to be a rapture Jesus is coming here the word capture is not in the Bible. It is a false doctrine. Satan comes first 666 6th Seal, 6th Trump and 6th Vial. Jesus is 777. Satan message is he is going to fly you out of here Exzekiel 13.18. God i@ against it

I love and believe in God ,but I also fear God. I believe that when I step out of God's will that He might and does, deal with me. The Holy Spirit makes me very uncomfortable until I go to God in prayer and seek His forgiveness.

What exactly did the guy who denied Jesus that constituted a denial ? What did he say no to ?

x 3 ?

Isn't a saved person someone whose heart has already been prepared? If the creator of the entire universe lives inside a person's heart, wouldn't that person be prepared and ready? And does a person have to read the New Testament before they can be saved? I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Please elaborate. Thank you!

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Mt 21:43. I've never associated this Scripture to the preaching of the Gospel first to Jerusalem & Judea. The Gospel was first to be brought to them as it should (God's care & concern for His people, the Jew, as well as preaching at home before radiating the Word to other nations). But that "the Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof", I understand that Israel was privileged to be God's chosen & to receive His Promises, but in their rejection ( Mt 31:33-41), their inheritance (the Kingdom of God) would no longer be their expectation, but to the nations that bring Him His fruits, unlike the husbandmen (in the parable) who did wickedly.

So the 'mystery' I refer to (unless it can be correctly shown in the OT), is something that was not revealed (whether in whole or in part), but which Paul has now shown to the Church. He may have received this revelation during his time in Arabia ( Gal 1:17), we're not sure. Nevertheless, this is something 'special' that is to happen to the Church that was unknown earlier, to which every believer can anticipate & longingly wait for.

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Bob, I take your point that in the case of Abraham, conversion of Gentiles in Esther's day, Laban & other numerous examples, there is a clear assimilation of Gentiles into Jewish lineage. However, when I refer to Paul's use of the word 'Mystery', this is not what I see. I see that he speaks only of the fact that both Jew & Gentile would one day be brought as one, as Christ's Church. We can't presume that the OT Scriptures about Gentile assimilation has any reference to the Church, even looking forward. Is there any OT Scripture that reveals this fact that Jew (& Gentile incorporation into Jewish lineage) would one day belong to the Church - that they should wait for the 'New Covenant' that would allow for their descendants to be an equal part of Christ's Church? The closest one is Jer 31:31-34 (cf Heb 8:8-11), but this only speaks of them entering into a New Covenant with the LORD, but not of the 'mystery' of incorporation into the Church. The revelation of Jesus through over 300 prophecies is not the mystery I refer to here.

Creation involves two types of seed....natural and spiritual...and each seed reproduces after its own kind...spiritual seeds reproduce in the spiritual realm, via faith....faith in what?

The word of God says, faith in the truth!

" confess" in Greek means to agree with another..

Check any concordance to verify this.

When Creation took place, God buried a lot of principles in what was created..ie laws like gravity,and others in physics, math, biology, etc, based on the principle " in the mouths of 2or3 witnesses every word is established

2Cor13:1

So if we agree with Him,we establish truth!

Jesus calmed the storm,and said to them " how is it you have no faith", implying that the disciples had the power to calm the storm. I've read scripture every day for 44 years( a miracle not done by me)

We've been translated out of the kingdom of darkness, into the kingdom of His son...implying we are in Jesus kingdom now!...wow!Do Christians believe that? No darkness in His kingdom!Col1:13

Our confession-agreement gives us power....but we need to believe.

I saw my son split an oncoming storm by declaring agreement with the Word...and I did the same in another place, another time

"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit" Prov 15:4

Tree of life speaks of Jesus...what happens if we agree with Him? Do we establish "We haven't been given a spirit of fear,but of power, love and a sound mind" 2Tim 1:7

I rest my case!............ Neil

Who would you say Matthew wrote his gospel to? I say he wrote it to the Hebrew/Jewish people. Yes, Christ was speaking to His disciples, but who were they, Jews or Gentiles? Yes, Mark was written first. Out of the 661 verses in Mark, Matthew has 500 of them, almost word for word. It shows that Matthew was following Mark's Gospel as a template for his writings. But he still wrote his gospel to the Jewish people. Matthew alludes to or presents over 60 references to the Old Testament, more than double of any other gospel writer because he is using these things to show the Jews that Jesus came, and he shows the fulfillment of the scripture that Jesus fulfilled, showing them, the Jews, that Jesus was the Messiah. There are so many things that Matthew wrote that only a Jew would be able to understand. During Jesus' 3 year ministry, do you think that all those who were following Him were a mixture of both Jew and Gentile? Were they even allowed to intermingle together at that time?



I believe the day of the Lord only covers the last 3-1/3 years, known as the Great Tribulation. And I do not think I ever said that God's wrath embraces the entire 7 year period. As for resurrection, I know Lazarus was resurrected. When Jesus died and went into the lower parts of the earth, He took with Him all the believers that were in that part of Hades, Abraham's Bosom. I would see that as a resurrection. Here is my understanding. The Lord will come for His church, the dead in Christ will rise first (resurrection), and then we which are alive with be caught up to meet them, and Him in the air. This is not the Lord's second coming. This is Him coming to remove His church from the wrath to come. At His second coming, He will literally step foot onto the Mount of Olives. That is His second coming. And He will rule and reign for 1,000 years. There will be another resurrection after the 1,000 year reign. That resurrection will be for the wicked. They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell).

Matthew 24:2 was partly fulfilled in 70 AD when Rome destroyed the temple in Jerusalem and Matthew 24:30 is yet to happen, so it is future. saying all Matthew 24 is past or all is future is wrong. Oftentimes there is a partial fulfillment of Bible prophecy and then a future complete fulfillment. You could hit youtube search for End Times Matthew 24 Revealed

or something along those lines. I hope that helps.

Hi Carlos, thanks for your response. Ok, since you retracted that you think all Christians are afraid I appreciate that. You added a bunch of questions about freewill. That's interesting that you seem unfamiliar with scriptural support for that or why you would think you don't have it. You can find verses by Google searching that. You ended by saying to not be afraid. I'm not afraid, are you? I'm not sure why you assume emotions of others. Take care.

In Micah 1:14, WHO is Moreshethgath? Is that an idol or god of the people?

we are baptized into Christ (not by water) but by the Spirit the moment we believe!

1 corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Matthew 24: chapter is it about the past present, or future?

1 John Chapter 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

There is only one door and that is Jesus, I do not care what anyone says they are a Jew and if they do not have Christ they are under the wrath of God eternally.

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Was the Tree of KoGaE a corrupt tree, as you have said? I simply don't believe so. It was in God's Design & was perfect. However, it was their wrong choice in partaking of its delights that opened their eyes to know good & evil. Could Jesus be tempted to sin & sin? No, the temptation was there, but Satan's encounter with Jesus was to cause a sin nature to become a part of Jesus' Being so that Jesus would fail as God's Son & Sacrifice. So we get back to God's Design in sending His Son into a corrupt world & back to A & E: God wanted to shield them from that trait of knowing the difference between good & evil becoming a part of them as they were 'wholly good, obedient & without sin'. But they chose unwisely under Satan's appeal to the only route 'into them' available to him, i.e. their power of choice. Did God know that was going to happen? For sure, or else He wouldn't be God. I couldn't align your illustrations of an earthly scenario of weeds, bad trees & trash as contradictions of a perfect condition - not the same as Eden, different because corruption is already in existence.

You state, "The world they were created into was flawed". I find that very difficult to grasp since God does not create things purposely with a flaw or blemish just to achieve His Design & Purpose. The world wasn't flawed at first, but became corrupt with the introduction of sin. And yes, God knew this would happen, but it was not a part of the Perfect Design; I would say it was a part of His Perfect Knowledge & His Whole Plan into Eternity allowed for it. To the 'Tree' again: you state, "it (Eden) had a very bad, corrupt Tree right smack in the middle of it". Sorry, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tree, or any of the trees/plants in Eden. If so, when they ate of it, they should have perished from the poison, or at least had some major medical issues, but the fruit appeared enticing to the eyes/flesh & delicious to the taste. Tree was good - choice was bad.

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Carlos, thank you for your comments: it seems that we are narrowing down in our understanding on this. So, I do agree that the potential was there for all creation to be susceptible to corruption, so I will focus now on 'defining perfection'.

Of course, we must agree to the fact that God Himself is Perfect in every way. Could we dare say that He could be corrupted? God forbid to even suggesting this, except for this purpose of understanding the matter. Therefore, he made man (& the heavenly host) in perfection (i.e. in a perfect world & man from 'perfect' dust). I can't fathom that any of God's creative Work could be anything else than perfect, or God (as we know Him from the Word) isn't God. Yes, the potential to corruption is there, but God's design & execution of creation was without flaw.

You said, "They (A & E) were not created perfect because, from my perspective, something perfect, free will or not, would not make the wrong choices". We're made in God's Image & by His Hand. But He gave us as part of that Design, the ability to choose, as is a part of His Nature. Has God the power of choice? Yes. If that were not so, Adam/Eve would just obey God unquestioningly, going about their earthly business & routine without ever making decisions over anything that came up to them: true perfection indeed! But God's design included the ability to choose & Satan seeing this, came to 'road test' this Divine Work (I think of Job, as well). Did God bring Satan? No, Satan did according to his charater: to oppose the Most High & all that are associated with Him. (onto Page 2)

Robert Marino, your post is worth repeating below.

"It's that simple. Get ready. Prepare your heart. These things were written to Christ's followers, not those who dont' even read the New Testament. It will be too late for them when everything hits the fan to start reading about preparing. Too late then. Jesus knew what was coming on those 7 churches in Asia Minor and gave them warning, encouragement, exhortation and rebuke. The modern lukewarm church in America is not going to get raptured when it needs purified much more than any other century. It is very important to keep our hearts right and have Jesus as our first love."

Adam, there are 2 parts to my response to Chris on creation. If you saw Page 1, I'll assume you saw Page 2. You bring up some worthy issues. Thanks for telling me about the reply button. I didn't mean to imply that all Christians are afraid. But we ought to interpret the Bible literally where it calls for it.

If all you got from my responses is that I think parts of the Bible are untrue, you missed the point. I don't believe any of the Bible is untrue. And yes, I am uncomfortable with a literal interpretation where it doesn't belong. But your troubled, accusatory response is what makes me think some Christians fear an honest examination of the Genesis Creation account, without preconceptions. Why would it upset you that I argue that not all the Genesis account is to be taken literally?

If there is in fact no symbolism in Gen 1-3, you shouldn't be troubled by it. You yourself say that only 61% of Christians polled think the Genesis account is literal. That means 39% don't. As we approach a study of Genesis we must Keep an open mind.

I don't know everything about creation, but it is clear that there are things that are unrealistic, if taken literally in the Bible. One such thing has to do with plucking your eye out. And when did God give you direct confirmation that you are the arbiter of Biblical Hermeneutics? I would encourage you and everyone else to examine Genesis 1-3 in light of what I wrote in my response to Chris.

You say, "God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill." Many people believe that because that is what they were taught to believe. But where does the Bible say we were created Perfect and with a Free Will? What exactly does it mean to have Free Will? Can a man have the ability to choose without having a Free Will? Do animals have Free Will? Can they choose to eat or not to eat? Have you ever told a dog not to do something and he does it anyway? Can you love without Free Will? Can you be obedient without it? Don't be afraid, Adam.

Jesus die for our sins,so that we might have a chance at the tree of life. Jesus knew all of what was expected of him; that's why God sent his only begotten son to do what the first Adam couldn't do. Jesus couldn't lie,that why no guile was found in his mouth. Jesus is the truth then and forever. We murdered him because of the truth. And we still don't want to be told the truth, because we have itchy ears. How is it that we accept lies why do hurt us and not the truth?