Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 314

Hello Richard,

My husband and I were away for the weekend for a short getaway amidst all the remodel work going on in our home.

On our way driving back home we were talking about Father's Day and he remarked that his sisters had not texted him to say Happy Father's Day. I said, well they make sure that they text each other to say Happy Mother's Day to each other but since Father's Day is not addressed to the, they skipped wishing you one. He agreed that I as spot on about that. Then he told me about how Father's Day got started by a daughter of a single dad who wondered why there was a Mother's Day but not a Father's Day and so she began the tradition many decades after Mother's Day was begun.

Then he said that he had heard a "rule of thumb" for dads, celebrate Father's Day, but don't make it bigger than Mother's Day!

We laughed about that. I said that either day doesn't matter that much to me because they are both created by humans, not God. But then I said, "You know, since you say I think like a man, then obviously I am not like your sisters." We laughed about that, because it is so true of me in so many ways! I am just not overly emotional or manipulative about special days and gifts and stuff. We are plain folk and just don't get all worked up about going all in for such celebrations, but we do acknowledge them to one another with simple celebrations.

Kind of crazy how the worldly ways of our society try to work people up for such things (and make a profit to boot).

We are to honor our fathers and mothers, as the Lord directed us to do as well as those in our sphere who are elderly and value their wisdom and stories of how they lived with far less convenience than we have and still lived to be a ripe old age by God's will. The term "OK Boomer" is one of those phrases that show contempt and disrespect for those who are decades older than the younger generation as if we do not have anything valuable to transmit to them to take into consideration.

Blessings

Page 1.

You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.

Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.

Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).

Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.

Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.

Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.

To Page 2.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

HAPPY FATHER'S DAY

As I walk around this afternoon I hear bellicose voices likely imbibing alcohol where men are wishing themselves a happy Father's day. This follows a sermon on the subject by our Deacon (as our Pastor is out of town this week). The concept of that sermon was demographics; differences between thought processes of men vs women; the fact that one thing women can do men cannot (giving birth); and finally scriptures on how men ought to be; and the scriptural plan for manhood followed by marriage followed by becoming a Father with the emphasis on the covenant between one man and one woman for life.

As I explore the verse quoted above; it is hard not to see how (as part of the sermon also brought forth as a concept) that kids today have lost a work ethic and are basically unruly not hearing the word "NO" from youth. This; of course has to do with one or both parents but as we all know the emasculation of true manhood has left many children feeling insecure; never being able to settle down. That would naturally extend to an unhealthy desire to acquire material possessions; as well as setting a bad example for their own children. There also is the fallout from those who have relationships and lifestyles that are either deviant or not sanctioned by scripture as traditional marriage has been given a bum rap. Hence we also see a disrespect and lack of honor of elderly people who are often ignored and placed into a Nursing Home and not listened to for their wisdom and practical advice.

There are cases where single fathers clearly ARE the best choice as opposed to mothers who are beset with addiction or other issues. Clearly a two parent home is the best environment as studying data makes pretty self evident under MOST circumstances.

Hi Bennymkje

God didn't want to curse Adam and Eve so He cursed the ground/earth instead, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;". He also cursed the serpent, verse 14.

That curse ended with Noah, Genesis 5:29, "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."

Chris,

I'm sorry but I fail to see how your understanding fits with any of the verses I have quoted.

Universal Atonement and Freewill relative to salvation are not taught in the Bible despite verses that when isolated may appear to do so.

When coming to conclusions regarding the Bible, all of the verses that relate must harmonize.

Unfortunately, failure to follow the Biblical principles of interpretation in virtually every church and denomination have contributed to teachings on critical doctrines, like the Nature of Salvation that are all over the map and ultimately place man and not God in control.

Ge.3:17 "Thorns and thistles" (2 of 2)

The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning,

Whereas the Law of the Spirit lays down another rule. This has been declared before the foundation of the world. John hears the Word announce it. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."(Re.14:13)

'Henceforth' is similar to the phrases the Spirit uses. It is enacted when the Lamb slain breaks open the first seal. The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. (Re.6:2). The martyrs are blessed because he shall slay the wicked one,"whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"(2 The.2:8:-12). Re.19:15.

Ge.3:17 "Thorns and thistles" (1 of 2)

"Of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"

Ground also implies human existence where disobedience sown by one man brings a bumper crop of misery. Labor is wasted and famine and pestilence are ever waiting to come in. Tree of life judged man who ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What good is to use killer weeds and have the forever chemicals in the water you drink? What good is to save a burning brand out of fire only to have it set your own house in fire?

Only God is good and who is restoring the world ravaged by sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 John 3:8). The West is as much compromised by the works of the devil. We often heard ad nauseam the six millions Jews perishing in the holocaust. Do we hear as much of lives lost by the West. In 1943 was the Bengal famine owing to the wrong policies of Great Britain. Three million lives perished by their policies. Have they even publicly acknowledged their guilt? It is thus nations have shown their hypocrisy.

The West has thus interfered in the 'Jewish question' of the last century to see another kind of ethnic cleansing and genocide now going on before them in the present times. Growing up complacent and being complicit in their crimes does not leave the future generation free from guilt. It is sin where faithless generation shall flounder in the moral morass of their fathers. It is what law of sin demands the devil's due since sinful man is a servant to the devil.

The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning.

Do you know that:

In Genesis 2:8 the Masoritic text says, "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."

The Septuagint text says, "And God planted a paradise in Edem to the east, and put there the man whom he formed"

In Genesis 2:15 the M/c says, "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."

The S/t says, "And the Lord the God took the man whom he formed, and put him into the paradise of pleasure/delight to work and protect it."

T Y Chris,

Romans 9:13-16

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Joel 2:12-14

12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?

Ezekiel 36:24-28

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Eph 2:1,8-10

1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ge.3:21 "Coats of skins"

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did theLordGod make coats of skins, and clothed them."(v.21)

God making coats of skins reiterates the idea 'without shedding of the blood there is no remission of sins.' Where law of sin existed God pointed what to look for. The Law of the Spirit was demonstrated in the mind of Christ which is to be understood spiritually. Example of Seth as an intercessor is a case in point." After our likeness" established the fulness of Jesus Christ so whosoever believed in him entered into the covenant, in his Man component. So Law of Moses was intended as a BandAid cure for one slain by law of sin. The brazen serpent on the pole explains it.

Ge,3:19-21 "Dust to dust"

That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth. He is a fool, a know nothing. Before him casting pearls may not always end up happily. We may see it in our case. Does anyone think if the imposter church is shown to be wrong in showing they are following doctrine of men and not the gospel of God set forth in the covenant in the opening chapters. that they shall disband and revere God and His holiness?

The entire episode of Eden and the Fall of man takes place in the heavenly places. It is same as we are called to do. We are dead to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Similarly his life 'hid in Christ meaning that he is created ;after our image and after our likeness'. We produce nevertheless fruits of the Spirit proving the seed in itself, so quality of it proves if we are good or bad tree. What God has not planted shall be cast forth for fire. God has not revised his blessings held out under the covenant.

The Spirit never mentioned the first martyr as dead, Instead he slept. God is the God of the living so their death merely follows God's warning, "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit./And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.?(Ac.7:59-60) Spirit goes to its set place as what is formed of the ground to its place.

Ge.3;19-21 "Dust to Gust" (1 of 2)

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

"Sweat of thy face"

St Paul makes a distinction between the face and heart. "For all thingsarefor your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God./For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inwardmanis renewed day by day."(2 Co.4:15-16) Face refers to outward man while heart is a spiritual space about heart which is not any anatomical part. Like the throne is used with reference to the earth as a footstool. It is thus we set Law of the Spirit far above the ground to which the law of sin rules the roost.

So what is face? We have the face of heaven declaring the glory of God as face of Cain was noticeable. "And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell./And theLordsaid unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"(Ge.4:5-6) Consider this verse,"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, togivethe light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6). The Spirit sets face as the interface between God and man. This is a direct reference to this statement, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters./And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."(Ge.1:2-3)

"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" working with our inner man does something to the heart which is knowledge leading to understanding. "The fear of theLordis the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10). Thus no man may excuse that he was ignorant of the Law of the Spirit. When God commanded, 'Fiat Lux!' our inner man knows. That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth.

Hello JBTthe3rd. The word 'Sanctification' is from the Latin, 'sanctificare' (to make holy), and 'sanctus' (holy). We also get the word, 'Saint' from this word. The very real meaning of 'Separation' is also involved in this word, as that which is unholy cannot fuse with that which is holy, but must be set apart from it.

We can look at Sanctification in generally three aspects:

a. a true believer in God, having been saved & redeemed through Jesus' Sacrifice, is said to be 'Positionally Sanctified'. That is, by virtue of now being a child of God, through Jesus His Son, the Christian is Separated & made Holy unto God by this position in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Peter 1:2).

b. as the believer walks this new separated life, he is also 'Experientially Sanctified'. When we grow in knowledge & experience of our Lord & Savior, we grow to be more like Jesus, hating & avoiding sin and displaying more & more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Philippians 2:13, Galatians 5:22-25).

c. we can know that we are truly in Christ, separated from the world & its lusts; we can also desire to grow to be more Christ-like in all our ways; but since the pull of the flesh is always at war with our spirit, we long for the day for our 'Future Sanctification', when our earthly struggles will be over and we will be taken into Christ Jesus' Presence (whether in the Rapture or through the veil of death), and we will be entirely perfect (without any stain of sin) & become as He is Holy & Perfect ( 1 John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:27, Jude 1:24,25).

Page 3.

So the problem is: if God saves BEFORE we can believe - and Belief/Faith can only happen at the moment of salvation, what then is the penitent sinner believing & calling out to God in faith, if it is not Believing & Faith itself. Rather, it may be better stated, 'that the Holy Spirit at the proper time gives the needed Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8), yet the sinner coming to the Lord still needs Faith to believe by the Grace of God - and I believe that this Faith in no way contributes to God's Work of Salvation. As well, if a sinner is born again, he already has expressed belief/faith, therefore it cannot happen at or after salvation is given.

Acts 16:30,31, describes this matter well. The Philippian jailer, after seeing what took place in his prison, cried out to Paul & Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The jailer was still unregenerate at this point, when Paul & Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". The jailer, as all sinners, have to believe on Jesus & His finished Work for them - and this belief is when they are still in sin & not at or after salvation.

Page 2.

If the sinner has been true about himself & his need before God, the assurance of that great Work of Salvation is now completed in him & he steps out in great joy & great desire to follow the path of holiness. This I understand is 'Born Again', its work in the sinner & the change of life that ensues.

To the other part of your comment. You stated, "I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God. But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us."

Given what you've stated here & what we've discussed earlier, you state that this (repentance & brokenness) is the Work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. But back to our problem: if this is the Work of God (to bring about repentance & brokenness), surely this is the unsaved sinner's response before God - that which you have written can never happen, since such a response would be adding to God's Work. As I remember, you've stated previously that it is only God Who saves: "We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart. That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation". (continued on Page 3).

Page 1.

Thank you David0921 for your response. I would align myself with most of what you've written concerning biblical inspiration, that the Word of God is indeed wholly authored by God. Yet, when I read 2 Timothy 3:16, that "ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God", I would be in conflict with some who hold fervently that what we read now (from the ancient recordings, also the KJB) are the actual Words that God (by His Spirit) spoke to godly men to write. "Inspiration" to me, doesn't mean that God dictated the Words to record, nor does it mean that the fingers of the writers were gripped by Him to pen those holy Words. Rather, as men recorded down what they saw or learned, God's Spirit was present to help them record accurately and remember correctly. That said, since you brought it up, I'll move on.

"What do I believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?" When we have Scriptures such as John 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-23, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 5:1, & others in John's epistle, we can believe that this re-birth is wholly of God & not of man's doing or involvement; that re-birth is a spiritual birth, whereby God gives us a new spirit (His Spirit) Who always inclines us towards God & His Son; that God's Ministry to us can only be to our revived spirit in us and not to the flesh that has no desire after godly things. Therefore, we are to continue to crucify our flesh which lusts against the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:17) in us & distracts us from serving God acceptably & in fear. Therefore, by the Holy Spirit in us, we have become new creatures in Christ Jesus, reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ. This re-birth must be the final Work of God in the sometimes lengthy course in a person's struggle dealing with conviction of sin, brokenness, humility, & cry for a Savior to save & redeem him. (continued on Page 2).

Of course. God Bless :)

Hi Momsage.

Sorry but I do believe we have covered everything there is to cover on this topic for now.

If not you and I certainly others have and it has certainly been covered in the past.

Can you and I agree to disagree peacefully on this?

Thanks for responding,

God bless.

Hi S. Spencer: The reason I mentioned the Adamic nature to you is because in your discussion; "Irenaeus And Infant Baptism" you basically said: "the sin nature is incurable." Plus, as to the questions, I got you mixed up with someone else, so sorry. I know you don't want to discuss this but I must respond to what you have said. The Holy Ghost wrote the bible so we would have to study it like a person learning a trade would if he wants to please his employer. Study it diligently ourselves. Honestly ask yourself; do you believe what you are saying because you did a thorough study of sanctification, the infilling of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues, or do you believe that way you do about the Adamic nature because you have studied it yourself? You say there are no scriptures that the Adamic nature is removed by sanctification, however, there are scripture that teaches us that it does. Sanctification means to be set apart, to be made Holy, this is how it deals with our love for sin by removing it permanently. Jesus gave the Holy Ghost to His Bride for strength to have power against the weapons of the enemy and to be the perfect, beautiful Bride who has prepared HERSELF for the marriage supper of the Lamb. Revelations 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." At the rapture He can meet a beautiful bride, in fine linen and clean and white which is the righteousness of the saints. Jesus will not have to eradicate the Adamic nature before She can be raptured or else She hasn't made herself ready, He has. God has a plan for His church and it is a perfect plan. In Part 2 you seem to say that there are sins that that are not part of the 10 commandments? What are those? If you don't answer, I understand but if you do please address my questions. I guess I've type enough. God Bless :)

Chris,

To add to my earlier comment and your statements regarding repentance and brokenness before God. I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God.

But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us.

I think that some of this may be seen as God is drawing us. But it will certainly be in evidence once God applies His Salvation to our life, in performing the MIRACLE of the New Birth, in giving the one whom He is saving a New Resurrected Soul, ie making them Born Again.

I do believe that God may DRAW those whom He saves in very individual and varied ways. This might be very quickly or very prolonged.

This is all very mysterious and we need to be very careful not to put our spin on God's process. But one thing is certain. All of this is God's work not our work in any sense as God works within us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

All of the glory for every aspect of our salvation belongs to God Alone. And we can take no credit whatsoever for any part of our salvation. Lest we become like the man of Numbers 15.

We should stand amazed that God would have saved us. And asking WHY ME? I deserve only Thy wrath and condemnation.

Praise God for so great Salvation!

Jude1:9

What is sanctification

Psalms 27:7-14 KJV

Psalms 27:9 KJV

"Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation."

Respond: Psalms 27:9 KJV

I pray and have faith the land I'm living in USA will be replenished flourishing of God goodness of his earth and resources .

Respond: 1 Peter 5:7 KJV

And Jesus Christ has been blessing me to have salvation, in all aspects and areas in my life I have been in and when I go to receive money , food. Clothes and many other things that the world itself could not contain.

Salvation- The act of saving preseveration ,preservation from destruction, danger and great calamity.

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

"Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you." 1 Peter 5:7 KJV

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich."

Lillias Trotter wrote that those who suffer most have most to give. Isn't this true? When we suffer for Christ's sake, God gives us strong character--so we can help others going through similar trials. I believe the church is poverty stricken because they have suffered little for Christ.

Suffering itself does not give God's wealth. But, suffering for Christ's sake does. How much have you and I suffered for Christ's sake. The amount of this kind of suffering can measure our usefulness to God--if we apply it to our hearts.

Randy Dimmett

Ge.3:17-20

"Cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life."

God willed the man "in our image" in heavenly places but he was formed out of dust of the ground. So curse of the ground 'for thy sake' is not the general rule but for man who has sinned. God's blessings do not change for those who are in Christ Jesus. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."(Ro.8:1) Ground is cursed on account of Adam,- and he represents all those who are under the law of sin and death. Death refers to the soul as part of the divine injunction. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."(2:17b)

"In the day" refers to the day decreed for the Son. Adam is created after our image and God has left all judgment to his Son.. This difference we can illustrate from Simon Peter before and after Jesus made him fisher of men. "Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing." ( Luke 5:5) What kind of work is it that you spent your day and night for your livelihood and at the end of it you are still zero? It is the curse on Adam working. We have Jesus assuring his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."(Matt.18:18). Here we see the Law of the Spirit working so blessings of the Man component is still in tact.

We see the force of the law of sin working in vv.16-17

"And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."(v.18)

"And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."(2:16) Here we have Adam naming the woman thereby establishing part of the curse on Eve. Elizabeth addresses Mary in harmony with the curse on Eve,"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"( Luke 1:43). Does this make Mary the mother of God?

Chris,

In addition to your responses and questions for me, I also read what you commented to Bennymkje.

There are many differences that seem apparant in the Gospel that we each are proclaiming. We each seem to have a very different understanding of three fundamental doctrines:

1.The Nature of Mankind appart from Salvation.

2. The Nature of God's Justice and Judgment.

3. The Nature of Salvation.

At the heart of these differences, I suspect, is the way that we approach the Scriptures and perhaps even our view of the Bible itself. I know that we have had this discussion before but it never hurts to repeat.

I believe that God Himself is the author of the entire Bible as He used Holy men of old to record precisely every word and phrase and chapter in the entire Bible from the mind and mouth of God. The Bible, in its original languages, is in every aspect the Holy Word of God Himself.

I believe that the Bible is God's Law Book for Mankind and that the Gospel of God's Judgment and Salvation is found in some aspect in every chapter and verse of the entire Bible. And we must be ready to test any doctrine or practice that we hold against anything and everything that God declares in the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

I believe that we must approach and interpret the Bible using ONLY the principles that God declares in the Bible. Some of these are:

1. We must compare Scripture with Scripture apart from any concept or idea that may come out of man's mind.

2. All scripture is profitable for for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

3. Christ, the author of the entire Bible, spoke in parables and without a parable spoke He not. He did this both to reveal and to hide truth.

4. God has a time table for revealing truth from the Bible, particularly as we approach the end.

5. And most importantly, God Himself must open our heart and mind to give us understanding.

May I ask, What do believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God

something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself

and became obedient to death-

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

What I am considering here is how Christ forever is going to be in His glorified body; hence not only being the "first of the firstfruits" as it were ( 1 Cor 15:23) but in a sense eternally being displayed as perfect God and perfect man. He is going to bear the marks of His crucifixion on His body forever; no doubt painless for Him but an everlasting reminder to us what it cost Him to do this in our place.

As I alluded to in my earlier post; God's plan for man changes from the Edenic garden to a city of gold; from man ruling over the earth to Christ and God leading with a rod of iron; and destroying Satan's Antichrist and armies upon His return.

In general it can be said that God never intended to "lord it over his subjects" if we are to use a common phrase. He is ruling and reigning with us ( Rev. 20:6; 2 Tim. 2:12 and many other verses). David is also going to rule in the Millennial Kingdom ( Hosea 3:5). Christ will still act as impartial judge as ultimately arbitrated by the Father (see Isaiah 11:3 and 4). Then God Himself will rule in eternity ( 1 Cor. 15:24).

We could say that all of human history is as a stage play-albeit in real time and real suffering. It serves to glorify God and of course He is victorious over all foes as He is Creator and they created beings under His control. Some things ( Deut. 29:29) are mysteries

Where in the Bible does it reference Michael the Archangel? Who is He?

Phillippians 2:5-11

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God

something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself

and became obedient to death-

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

Introduction: Genesis 3:15 The ball is rolling....

The prophesied redemption in this verse signifies in time and space the plan no doubt formulated in eternity past for Christ to come and die for the sins of man; and to be Resurrected thus being victorious over Satan with a fatal wound; as it were. We have no idea how much time there was before this between Satan's creation and fall ( Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28) and his appearance here; no doubt he had time to come up with his master plan of deception and probably had some idea that man was going to be put in his place of authority and eventually be exalted to rulership to take over his position in a way. We don't specifically know this; and it is possible that he had to wing it after he saw man being created. Nonetheless; he likely had ample time to consider how to attempt to reverse his fate after being removed from his original place as a sort of music worship leader in heaven. This of course led to a prophecy of his ultimate defeat which is also seen with the fatal wound of his Antichrist beast in both Revelation 13 and Zechariah 11:17 as well as his eventual confinement to the bottomless pit and then the lake of fire.

Christ's plan was then set forth; which would have him live as the perfect man; the "second Adam" ( 1 Cor. 15:45-49); die for us and Ressurect.

Phillipians 2:5-11

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God

something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself

and became obedient to death-

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

I am specifically examining this passage in light of Christ's coexistence with God the Father and also the concept of positional changes in light of His substitutionary atonement and exaltation to rule over the earth as King of Kings; Lord of Lords.

Introduction: As usual; I am "winging it" here-albeit our church recently studied this entire book and currently Sunday school is focusing on Phillippians 1 in a deeper analysis. The overarching point here on having the "mind of Christ" would appear to be thinking on all things that are in Phillipians 4:7-8 that are "true"; "honorable"; etc which also was to reflect Paul's life and teachings as an example. It also should be examined as to being humbled then highly exalted; we suffer for a time then are glorified and in His presence; ruling and reigning with Him. While we suffer on earth; we are also "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6).

If we backtrack to the dawn of human history (for those who truly believe that) we don't see any indication at the time of Adam and Eve's creation that there was any plan at work for Christ to actually rule on earth with a rod of iron; conquering his enemies; etc. Of course there was no sin at first and therefore such actions would not be necessary. Nonetheless; in Genesis 3:15 we see the theme of Christ's victory and Satan's end.