Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 320

Counting the cost: Persecution brings TRUE unity in the Body of Christ

When the chips are down; and times get hard we will look for any solace in a storm. As with anything; at least as long as a church service as we are used to attending in a building is allowed (which may not be too much longer) what stands the test of time are those who stick closer than a brother ( Prov. 18:24) which is contrasted with those more shallow relationships that persecution will find tends to back away. When someone has a relative martyred for the faith such as a Deacon in my current church it helps put things into perspective; and it is a blessing to see him and his family; where his wife; 3 kids; mother and mother in law are all believers along with someone else they know from their native country (I won't mention where). I met another individual from an African nation who had a number of fellow servants in the Lord martyred when witnessing to surrounding countries on a clandestine mission.

Tough times are unbearable to think about in our own strength; but i will say that they tend to simplify everything; when we aren't so focused on distractions. It is no accident that countries with the highest level of persecution tend to be the places where people spend hours rather than minutes in prayer and services for the Lord as it comes with a high cost; and one never knows if the next service will come to pass. When you have to travel for miles barefoot it makes you appreciate more the fellowship of the saints and the unity thereof.

Less is more in many ways; godliness and contentment is great gain ( 1 Tim. 6:6). Would there be more that would open their homes to Bible study; prayer and going out to evangelize on a regular basis. Such was my experience in the past; for now I am taking care of elderly parents but if He tarries I plan to return to this type of fellowship wherever that may be. Laboring in the fields isn't fun; and costs some time; but builds our faith.

The Holy Spirit: Persecution

My last posting raised the question where was evidence for persecution for almost all the "famous" preachers of the last century?

It has truly saddened me to see how Billy Graham seemed to sell out in many ways; and to be at all glad that a special star was made for him in Hollywood (at least I think that's where it is) should be a warning signal when he didn't immediately reject such worldly acclaim. The truth is; unless one is truly dangerous to the Kingdom of darkness they won't be much resisted.

I won't mention anyone currently living by name; but there are other celebrities who have museums named after them and who clearly have sold out to the Christian music "industry"; where we see many performing secular music eventually; and a number becoming atheists of late.

Persecution can come in many forms: Should we preach the truth we should expect those under demonic influence or disturbed to bring resistance as I have witnessed myself personally in the past. I also saw a con artist who used flattery and apparently eventually went elsewhere and bamboozled someone to marry him for her money. He was claiming to be a miracle worker sort of person from one of the African nations. We also can expect people to come who are victims of abuse; I have seen this as well with a wife of an abusive alcoholic. We can expect people who need deliverance; I got to witness that as well as well as hearing of a successful one in my church; although sadly someone ELSE I felt ill prepared for and I'm not sure if he ever went through with it. The enemy will use disturbed people to test our fearlessness. There are some things that must be dealt with outside a formal service but we should be ready to have our comfort zones tested; or how will we be ready when real persecution begins and we are jailed or attacked? We all have to ask ourselves are we ready to rely on the Holy Spirit and truly fight offenively against the enemy?

The Holy Spirit: Living out our faith vs. "smoke and mirrors"

I have discussed apparently more than once in Philippians 1 about how many preached out of envy to add to Paul's suffering as no doubt those preaching this way would bring the accusation that Christians truly are unhinged; and not in the way the Lord intends.

God says that He "draws all men to Himself" ( John 12:32) to be accomplished after the Resurrection.

When we see the sideshow that is so often the megachurch power and numbers game; which in reality is usually just "filthy lucre" as a motivation ( Titus 1:11; 1 Tim. 3:3 etc) it kind of reminds us of Judas Iscariot on steroids; everybody out for a buck and willing to pay into the system so that they can also gain earthly riches. The only one this works for is other hucksters hence we see the company many of these fraudulent Pastors keep which in reality is the only company they respect. I can only imagine what the true titles of some of their conference meeting motivational topics would be if exposed.

INTERNATIONAL conference on ways to fleece the flock: No holds barred. Special invite only for ministries grossing 10 Million a year: Highlights

How to pass the buck with the shell game approach; avoid paying taxes in the US; how to apply to YOUR country

How to impress your King or President with favors

How to maximize giving through flattery; guilt and confusion. Special EVENING devotion on the new "Shock and Awe" approach

How to make it happen: signs; wonders-get the right title for your ministry: "Healing" and "Deliverance ministries OFFICIAL decal for 5000 dollar annual fee.

I may get flagged for this sarcasm but these are techniques being used today. It is truly sobering to see that in many of the so called revivals in the last century there were serious problems; from the anarchy that was prevalent in the Azuza street ministry to many unverified "miracles" with A.A. Allen and others with questionable morals. And no persecution?

The presence of the Holy Spirit

In light of my previous attempt to cover some areas in regard to Baptism and other important factors that should aid in raising Godly children; I started discussing how the Spirit works in a household as a specific example from scriptures on the subject.

Joshua 24:15 says: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

In light of Genesis 15:16 and the sin of the Amorites coming to the fullness about 400 years later and then being devoted to destruction; we certainly can look to the approximately 400 years we have been a nation since Plymouth Rock and how far we have strayed; no doubt worshipping some of the entities which our ancestors found with the American Indians who were considered "pagans" at the time and in general wantonly destroyed. We also could go further and see how the Indian nations themselves were in a sense being judged for some of their wicked practices; although my cousin an expert on the subject gave me a book about 20 years ago which shows the incredible complexity; diversity and number of Indian nations.

Anyway; looking at Proverbs 14:34

"Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people."

Since John 16:8 mentions sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the working of the Holy Spirit I thought I would reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions with a particular angle. When we are believers we can discern others who are full of the Spirit because we sense conviction of unworthiness as well as the love of Christ at the same time. That truly is a paradox; but shows us a healthy fear of God but exposes us to His mercy as well; and it is and should be truly unnerving at times. That is what I would like to live out; but admit I am sadly short.

Thanks bro Giannis for those additional thoughts. If I might address your first paragraph, re: Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. You mentioned, "Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above)", or as the Bible quotes, "Except a man be born again"; ordinarily, I can see that there's a difference in meaning here, but can also see that the difference can also be seen as negligible, or just creating an argument on semantics. For the word 'except', I could use it equivalent, 'unless', which then correctly addresses Jesus' Words, that 'unless a man IS born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God', as opposed to, "unless a man is NOT born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".

Also, I take your point on, "he cannot SEE the kingdom of God", as honestly I've never observed any difference between 'see' & 'enter' (as in John 3:5), yet I stand corrected in my understanding. But, I note the difference in the Greek words in this respect & also how it cannot apply to infant baptism. But are you of the general persuasion that John 3:5 "born of water and of the Spirit" applies to water baptism & Spirit baptism, rather than my understanding that it applies to 'physical and spiritual births', as an answer to Nicodemus' perplexity? Or, if to the former (i.e. to water baptism), then the necessity of water baptism which must be essential for salvation. GBU.

Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. ( Psalm 8:2)

And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ( Malachi 2:15)

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. ( 1 Cor. 7:14).

The first verse here bolsters what I said in my last posting. The Lord can and will be loved by small children; because they haven't discovered ways through their own sin nature yet to create their own Kingdom.

The other verses here show what I have argued in the past as being THE most important factor in raising children from the start. That is two parents who are in a genuine covenantal marriage with God and ideally both believers. It appears that if the marriage is honorable than even one believing person can somehow bring the blessing of the Holy Spirit over the whole household. This is a mystery and cannot always guarantee children will remain in the faith but I feel since it IS in the Word it merits careful consideration. I am aware from testimony of one of my friends that after he and his wife came to faith evil presences were removed from their house. Truly KNOWING the Lord should mean there is some tangible comprehension that the Lord is present in our midst. Sadly in today's churches this experiental faith is either entirely disregarded or people are wildly excited about everything without discerning if it is from the Devil or their own imaginations. If the Lord is mocked and sin abounds we can be SURE the Holy Spirit isn't behind any manifestation. The best way I can describe it is a spiritual experience may seem good but the Lord is unique for a true believer KNOWS His voice.

Proverbs 22:6 says:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

My friend in Pittsburgh is the only one I have had to privilege to see correctly raising Christian children (I have no kids of my own).

Truth be told; his kids have presented materials from the Bible in school papers to their teacher's chagrin; and 2 are now in college but none of his 6 kids know the Lord yet as far as I know. Since I moved from there he has become a Deacon in his church; and it is much deserved in my opinion; my friend is very wise and truly loves the Lord; witnessing on the job as well as when other opportunities arise on the street.

Some have brought up the whole concept of today's methods of declaring someone to be in the faith because of some verbal assent (otherwise sarcastically called "decisional regeneration"). I am not going to attack this from a Calvinistic viewpoint; but from a "fruit inspection" one. And let's consider how this same process is further exacerbated with our own offspring and in particular how children are presented with Gospel truths. It is appropriate for a 5 year old to be given a softened version at least of scriptures of a graphic nature; which would include ones talking of Christ's sufferings to some extent. What we can do; of course is tell them how much we love and fear the Lord IF we live this as a reality. By the time a kid is say 12 or 13 they need to be getting into matter of fact verses about sin and their need for a Savior. FOR SURE they should be taught and experiencing a healthy prayer life; being made to be WARRIORS in a hostile world. That; in tandem with scripture reading.

In ALL stages we should be no less TENACIOUS than the world who is now forcing the politically correct agenda and forced procedures on kids as young as kindergarten today. Let us remember Psalm 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies...

Leviticus 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

When we consider how Jesus Himself became our perfect living sacrifice; and how we are expected to reflect the same ( Romans 12:1-2) we can see the beauty in His death; even though His visage was marred more than any man ( Isaiah 52:14).

In consideration of what seems to be a repeated theme on this site the last few days; we should consider the gravity of dedicating our FAMILY members to the Lord. In a larger sense ALL of mankind is part of God's Creation (all souls are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4).

The principal that those who know will receive many beatings compared to those who don't ( Luke 12:47-48) we hope will occur in this life; not in eternal judgment.

I am not saying we shouldn't teach our children about Christ; and probably in regard to infant baptism; I would agree when they are in the "age of innocence" despite being "little sinners" it is only the adult who will be judged irresponsible if indeed it is a violation of God's will to do this. Instead; I think we need to look more seriously at older children and teens who still are attending church activities when living with their parents. True; if we teach our children diligently ( Deut. 6:7) and give them a moral compass at least from a worldly standpoint they likely will avoid many mistakes; often deadly in today's society. But of course we should know better than expect them to automatically continue once they move out; go to college or become of working age. It is inappropriate to lock them up or something once they reach a certain maturity.

The children need to know as they learn doctrines they become more responsible; hence the warnings of Matthew 11:24 need to be taken into consideration. At some point the hard verses need to be taught.

Amen Brother Chris!

God bless.

Chris, 2/2

In my church babies are dedicated to God. When they are of an age, more than say one-one and a half months old they are brought by their parents to the church and they are dedicated to the Lord by the pastor. So God takes officially control of their lives and is leading them to His will as they grow up. They learn the Bible gradually as they are growing up until the time they realize that they are sinners and they are eventually regenerated by God. Then water baptism comes next. Not in an standard age, that differs from a child to an other. Some before 10, other after 10, other after 20, other never.

And here is where the responsibility of the church starts. It has to minister these kids to become true christians when they are grown adults. It is also the responsibility of the family. Families that attend the congregation frequently and send their kids to child and youth studies, pray together, study together and do everything to protect their kids from the outside world have good results. Families that are generally careless and don't avoid mixing with the sinful world have usually disasterous results. The problem nowadays in the christian community that looses its young people to the world is that we don't avoid the world as the older generations were doing. We are a bit careless, we underestimate the dangers or we have been compromized with the world. We have become neither hot nor cold. And the kids do what they see in us. GBU

Hello Chris, 1/2

May I add a few things on baptism?

Lets go back to that conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above, both translations can be right, the latter more possible) then he can not SEE the kingdom of God. Pay attention to that "SEE". It doesn't say ENTER but SEE. For one to "see" which means to have a knowledge, an understanding, realize, about the Kingdom of God. they must be of an age that they understand, isn't it so? Later on Jesus explains that "born from above". He says that except one is born from water and (from) the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of God. So that "born again" is explained by Jesus as "born from water and from the Spirit". We know who the Spirit is. But water? If Jesus means the water of baptism (for infants) then that contradicts that "see" above. It also contradicts the verses in 1 Peter 1:23-25 where we are told that new birth occurs by the Word of God which was prached to us by the gospel. So according to these at least infant baptism is out of any consideration.

What about children that can have an understaning? I know many cases that little children can sometime in their lives understand that they do sins, eg say a lie, steal a toy, disobey their parents, little things that kids do. They can not understand the fullness of sin as the adults do but they know they do something wrong and want to be forgiven by God. How do they know they do some things wrong? Because they hear the Word of God that is preached to them in church and by their parents back home. So I believe that although they are not in the age of accountability still God regenerates them. I have seen kids that they have changed completely after new birth and have stopped being naughty after regeneration. They pray to God and try to live properly as the Bible says. So I think those are eligible for water baptism.

Hi Cheryl1655: If you read the story of the tower of Babel in Genesis 11:1-9 it gives a clear answer to your question.

God Bless :)

How did Noah's son's produce different races of people, When its said in the Ark was Noah and his wife and sons so how did they all produce different race of people

Thank you bro. S. Spencer for sharing that article & your thoughts on this matter of 'infant baptism'.

That was an interesting read for sure, but I do particularly note at your Part 4 (2nd para), quoting Paul Owen, "being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be BORN AGAIN through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Here, Paul Owen is quoting John 3:5, which actually says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"; Jesus is not speaking of being born again of water, but of being born of water (of = 'ek', from, from out of), which Jesus qualifies in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". So Jesus is equating "being born of water" with the physical natural birth (which Nicodemus was specifically questioning in verse 4), and only the birth of (from) the Spirit is what is needed to enter "the kingdom of God". So Paul Owen's slight change of verse 5 to read "except a man be born again through water and the Spirit", can easily lead one to accept that Jesus was proclaiming baptismal regeneration.

And of course, as you rightly stated, a child (of whatever age), when he/she is able to understand what sin is & their own falling short of God's perfection, and that the only remedy is not found in them but in God's Provision of a Savior, then that little one must be led to the Cross, in faith & love, embracing Christ. In this, I see a full warrant for 'child baptism', or else a premature sprinkling on an innocent unaware child would amount to simply a type of 'child dedication' by the parents, which dedication of course, is highly commendable, sans the sprinkling. Blessings brother.

Ronald,

Nathan has been on my mind throughout the day today and I continue to pray for God to intervene according to His will which is always best.

I can only imagine how painful this is to Nathan and they may still be evaluating his injuries so they may not want to put him out just yet so as not to depress any vital systems functioning. I will pray for his parents who must be sick with worry.

Keep us posted. I hope to hear better news about Nathan soon. But God is good, sovereign, knows Nathan through and through, is completely aware of all his injuries and results of this accident, and is almighty. So, we can entrust those we love to Him.

Well Jesse,

It is my tradition since I have had sooo much dental work over the years, so I just prefer to think of those who need to be prayed for who I know are in much worse shape than I am when in the dentist chair. So, it is a tradition of a woman!

Thanks for the humor. We do need that because we do discuss serious matters here so often. It is good to just jest at life as well as talk about everyday things on this site just to enhance relationships here. I love getting to know more about others. I believe that people who post here are well-meaning and have desires to get at the truth of matters. But there are so many things we discuss that are important to share about, but they may not be vital to one's walk with Jesus. So in such matters we can equally share our thoughts and viewpoint and learn more than we did before even if our view remains as it was.

I endeavor not to foment disagreements here nor to intimidate someone from sharing their view. But at times I know I have failed. I do keep on praying for those on here whether I share their point of view or not. My hope is that each person who reads and desires to post will feel the freedom to share their ideas and receive thoughtful replies that do not harm another person.

It is a good goal to have every time we post. May we all do so with humility and gratitude to God for the opportunity to fellowship here.

GiGi,

You make a lot of great points about what is or what isn't "traditions of men."

I just have to ask, would praying for someone while sitting in the dentist chair getting prepped for a crown be considered a tradition of men?

Sorry, I had to ask and I'm just trying to share a little humor here. There's not much of that anymore and it seems like we can use a little humor every now and then.

Blessings!

Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set. ( Proverbs 22:28)

Deuteronomy 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

With these two verses; it is clear that there were distinct areas allotted for the nations from the beginning which God established.

It would appear that at least a type and pattern of the children of Israel was in this plan; even though this would have been apparently before the flood. This principle it would seem from Proverbs was to be more or less continued after the flood when sadly once again nations were corrupted rapidly worshipping idols and performing child sacrifice as a common ritual. The Lord did have Melchizedek as an early Godly priest who was mysteriously outside the genealogy of the rest of Israel but so great that Abraham himself tithed to him.

Many in the West today are ignorant on history; and aren't aware how often we as "Colonialists" redefined the boundaries in the Middle East; although it is one of the talking points today. Naturally the main focus of support for Hamas is insane for several reasons; as they don't want a "2 State Solution" and indeed they were the biproduct of displacement from Arab groups in the past; and of course surrounding nations such as Egypt most recently don't want them in the past. The point on that subject relates to this topic in that God did establish Israel and it's borders in it's covenant; as offended as many may be if Israel has land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan; its actual boundaries scripturally extend all the way to the Euphrates and would encompass much or all of Jordan; and parts of other nations in that area today.

Issues in this regard have fostered centuries of conflict between Russia and surrounding nations; and China vs Japan as 2 examples. History repeats itself ( Ecclesiastes 1:9).

JAZ

To finish up. There are many things practiced in the Christian church over the centuries, some are ancient and some are recent, that are not delineated in Scripture and most of these are seen as a matter of individual conscience or conviction. So when people disagree on a matter such as these we are to be charitable and not judgmental.

Whether or not to accept infant baptism is one of those matters.

So from my end, I will be charitable to you and not judgmental in things we differ on that are not ESSENTIAL doctrines of the faith.

I hope you will understand where I am coming from in this response to you. God's blessing to you always.

Yeah I can't remember exactly; but someone said that an entire unit came back without casualties and those at home in church were praying for them daily (may have been a charismatic type church).

I am sorry if I sound less than enthusiastic as to my view on the past; I feel that things need to be brought out that may have made things worse than they had to be; nonetheless because of His grace the whole world wasn't destroyed at that time.

I suppose to go back in detail at this point to explore all this may not be all that edifying. There are things such as the licentiousness especially in England but also I have no doubt occured with our soldiers when on tour of duty that allowed for more collateral damage. Pearl Harbor was something apparently that could have been warned against; and we were said on one or more occasions to have provoked Germany to attack. Of course we could also look to the stubbornness of German Jews who held out for months or years when they had the opportunity to leave because they thought it never could happen there.

And such a situation may be coming to pass in our nation. I have been warning that if we really defeat and throw out the untold multitudes of terrorists and criminals that are now within our borders that there will be a great loss of life. Just look at the casualties from the Mexican drug cartel and the government in recent years (I know I mentioned that the other day).

Yes; Gigi I suppose I can be desperately trying to find ways to cope; to prepare or somehow be more ready for what is to come.

Ultimately the Lord is in control; I'll admit knowing we are in a sinking ship is very difficult to deal with but also I'm a realist.

Is it wrong to be realistic about how horrible thing are going to get? Yes; I'll admit if we don't focus on His Spirit it is; it is just mind boggling to me how many professing Christians aren't spiritually up in arms when the casualties are mounting around us.

Sorry to rant.

Agape; RP

Dear Jaz,

I didn't realize that this reply of yours was to me.

I must say that what offends me is when people comment as you have concerning me in a way that is judgmental when you really do not know me or what God knows in my heart.

I understand that you think we all should seek what the Bible says on matters. I agree with that. However, the Bible nowhere says that if a matter is not explicitly set forth in Scripture we are to reject it as a "tradition of men". There was a whole lot more spoken and preached and practiced by the apostles that are not recorded in Scriptures. But some of these have been spoken about by believers close in time to the apostles and with knowledge of what was practiced. This is where historical information come in to help us to understand matters that are not explained, condemned, or commanded in the Scriptures.

For example, the use of organs, pianos and other instruments were not mentioned in Scripture, but are used in worship services now. Therefore, such use can be considered a new tradition. Is it wrong to practice this tradition since we are not instructed to do this in Scripture? Is it a" tradition of men" that we should reject?

Or, the matter of the Lord's Supper in the church. In the first century it was celebrated with a full meal, but most churches do not include a full meal with this ordinance today. So, is changing the way the Supper is performed and celebrated now a "tradition of men" that we should reject?

How about personal Bible study. In the early church people did not have copies of the Bible to study and that continued for 1500 years or so. Is it a "tradition of men" to engage in personal or even home-group studies and therefore be rejected because it is not commanded in the Scriptures?

Then again, what about children's Sunday School classes. These are a very recent practice in the church and was not commanded or practiced in the early church according to the Scriptures. isn't this a tradition of men?....

Final thoughts on D Day.

In conclusion; we might say that the extreme of idealism and patriotism brought vigor and strength to be what otherwise would be cannon fodder. Much newsreels and literature continued to raise the themes of patriotism; and on both sides there were caricatures exaggerating whoever the enemy was; whether racist images of what was perceived as "Jews"; or of the big 3 dictators (Hitler; Hirohito and Mousselini). There are; of course well known conspiracy theories about those who fomented both of these wars and the final war to come. National pride as it stood then was universal; whether by force or free will no one dreamed about living in a world such as envisioned today in our country of open borders in which those who stand for their country are made to feel ashamed.

That being said; we need to look beyond the exterior venire of our past and realize that the spirit of the age dominated. There was an idealism in external beauty as seen with the idolization of hollywood stars; and an ignorance of the evils of racism that truly discriminated against the black population. The Japanese internment in our nation was a sad episode in our past; especially in the light of those who volunteered to fight for our country. Nonetheless; the economic expansion and blessings of our country in general came to pass; certainly in a large part to many who married and were fruitful to multiply as was the plan in Genesis. We can't dwell on the past; but see how patient God was and how many generations He allowed these benefits to our citizens.

As we stand today; we don't know how much time we have until He comes or if any day now we will suffer a major attack and life will suddenly change. Let us fight the good fight daily ( 1 Tim. 6:12) and continue to persevere until the end. We are losing hundreds of thousands every year to drugs; gun violence and suicide so our situation is even more dire than the deaths we suffered in WW2. ( 1 Peter 5:8

Dear Stratnut,

I prayed for you this morning when at the dentist having a tooth prepped for a crown. instead of focusing on the procedure and any discomfort I may feel, I focused on praying for those I know who have asked for prayer, like you. I knew that the time spent in the chair was short and your pain is ongoing, so I will continue to pray for you.

Spiritual implications: 80 years since D Day.

It would seem; with the lines blurring between good and evil (or more precisely; who the friends or the enemy is); today's drone type warfare and proxy wars and the hesitation since Hiroshima and Nagasaki to start a nuclear war (and in the same logic to directly start a large invasion or saturation bombing campaign such as Hitler's "blitzkrieg" which would trigger a nuclear apocalypse; we may not have such a large scale world war until the wars preceding and related to Armageddon. This of course doesn't guarantee this being a logical conclusion; but if wrong it would mean the Lord is going to tarry MUCH longer than it appears today. It would take decades to have any sort of society near "normal" as we see today; and indeed Jesus stated it would be like the times of Noah; or Sodom when destruction comes. ( Matt. 24:37 see also Luke).

In World War 2 itself; but not isolated to that event we saw how the actions of a few may have saved the day. I am not taking the time now to do the research; but I have heard that much prayer happened when England was down to its last plane or last few when being heavily assaulted by the German bombing runs. There were also things that I said in my last post that made the situation worse; namely Roosevelt sending those attempting to escape the concentration camps back to Germany; and the racism that peaked in our country in the 1930s to name two.

In terms of finding meaning; we can look to films such as "Unbroken" to see how Christ can allow forgiveness to our enemies; as well as the Corrie Ten Boom story of being with her sister who died eventually; and her narrative explaining how she praised God for the flea infested camp she was in because the guards didn't come in to beat them and they could study the Word together.

When looking at the madness of dictators we can see foreshadowing of the Antichrist and his campaign commencing in trying to fight Christ. (Ps.2 REV 19

Ronald, I have prayed for Nathan yesterday and today.

David Allen.

I am happy to pray for your family and mother-in-law.

Susan. I will pray for your son. May the Lord touch his brain with healing.

Hello,

Listened to Reagan's speech on D-Day 1984 where he said something like: those who fight a war to liberate differ markedly from those who fight a war to conquer.

The allied forces were fighting WWII to liberate. They were just in going to war and landing at Normandy. The men that disembarked were heroic and selfless in their taking to the beaches under German fire. That victory by allied forces was an event that turned the tide for liberation from the dictator Hitler and his plan to conquer all of Europe for his evil reich.

I heard today also of a bill introduced to have a month of celebration/acknowledgement/ honoring all American who have fallen in battle. Hope it happens since this is such a worthy thing to do (as opposed to say-gay pride month)

Those of that generation not only fought the war, but those at home were praying en masse on D-day. Wish our country was more like that now.

Eightieth anniversary of D Day-some thoughts.

On June 6, 1944 the Allied armies began their land invasion from the shores of Normandy. This would involve in large part the American and British and signal their first "en masse" intrusion to force the Germans to retreat. In truth the first major resistance for the Germans was the Russians who stalemated their original expansion east just short of Moscow at the end of 1941 and continuing into 1943 when they started the inevitable push westward; expanding in 1944. In the meantime; those such as my now deceased father in law were involved with the slow incursion on the "boot" of Italy; where interestingly Hitler's ally and codictator ended being more of a pain for Hitler; and also the mass killings in that part of Europe never took the ferocity and numbers to the camps as the rest of Europe. Mussolini met his fate first; then later just less than a year after Normandy; did Hitler at the end of April, 1944 when Berlin was sacked despite his maniacal efforts to resist to the last child that could fight.

Of course on the Japanese front a similar plan would have been an option which was eventually tabled due to the high casualty rates predicted with the 2 atom bombs dropped. If the land invasion happened instead the fight probably would have gone well into 1946.

There is much that can be said about the war; in terms of it being something that got our country out of the depression (which a lot of wars are about; money). World War 2 itself was the last war that was "officially" approved through Congress; unlike any conflicts since. It seemed we knew who was good and who was evil in this event; but truth be told there were those complicit to the evil that occured even in this country and especially with the Japanese things were much more complex than they appeared in regard to the animosity and religious fervor for the Japanese leader and differing fanaticism between the army and navy.

Revelation 11:15 and 18

15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were(WILL BE) angry, and GOD's WRATH is come ... and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

The message above was written around 95AD to be LITERALLY fulfilled in the future( Revelation 1:1) , and now, even now, from now on, the prophecy will LITERALLY be executed, for GOD is wrathed against all nations and they will be destroyed, include the current Israel, and only and only will be saved a remnant of Israel- Micah 7:18-20, in fact only 144K will be saved- Revelation 7:1-8. And the others?

The others? Matthew 23:33-35

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (why serpents? why generation of vipers? The answer is in John 8:44.Take a look), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

Get ready