Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 322

Jones,

cont. Pt. 2.

We should consider also that when the gospel was being preached by the apostles, there were no second generation children brought up by believing parents at that time. So, the individual baptisms of adults such as the eunuch (who would remain childless) and Saul, (who was single) or Timothy are showing the baptism of those who had not been brought up by regenerated Christian parents. Children of parents who were regenerated were in a different standing than adults who profess faith, repent and are baptized.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that the Scriptures do not have any explicit teaching TO baptize children or infants AND NO teaching NOT to baptize children and infants. Therefore, any stance one would take on infant baptism is by inference.

Just as the Holy Spirit can regenerate adults and give faith to believe in Jesus when they were dead in sin, so can He do the same in infants and children of believing parents who will believe the Gospel as it is taught to them as they grow in intellectual understanding of Jesus, salvation, and their need for sin to be forgiven. We cannot confine God and His grace to one's own way of thinking concerning salvation because the Scriptures clearly say that it is given to us by God alone and not on anything we do. We are chosen from before creation to be saved and He will bring it about. If baptism does not save, but instead is a sign of God doing a saving work in an individual's life, why can't we believe that He can do this in the life of any infant, child, or adult before they have faith to believe? Our faith and repentance comes from God as a gift, and we should believe that He will gift our babies and children with regeneration, faith, and repentance as they are considered holy (saints) by reason of believing parent(s) as soon as they are born. They are just as eligible and deserving of baptism as a sign and seal of the covenant God has promised to the elect no matter their age at baptism.

Hello Jones,

Good question.

My thoughts are that since one must be regenerated by the Hoiy Spirit and given faith to believe by him, the order that I would say is regeneration (born again) as a work of God alone comes first as He has elected one to salvation by His will alone. Then comes faith to believe, then baptism as far as believer's baptism goes.

With infant baptism, the person is baptized first with the parents believing on God being a covenant God who is consistent. In the OT circumcision was the sign of entering into a covenant relationship with God. It included both adults, children and infants. In the NT, God is still covenantal with His chosen people, so whole households are to enter into covenant relationship with God.

As is said in 1 Cor. 7:13-14 Paul says that parent(s) are believers, then the children are holy. And Jesus said not to hinder children from coming to Him, including infants ( Mk. 10:14' Lk. 18:16). We are to our children into the household of God in Christ. Baptism is the ordinance that sets one in the covenant relationship with God, therefore we bring infants tinto the church through baptism.

I think one needs to understand that when the Bible speaks of whole households being baptized it is most likely children and infants were included, just as they were in the OT with circumcision (the sign of being in the covenant people of God). Every OT Israelite was not of true faith as Abraham, but they were included within the members of the congregation anyway. Therefore, in like ways, children and infants are baptized, relying upon the promises of God that salvation and forgiveness of sins is for oneself and for one's children, as Peter said in Acts 2:38-39. We also need to realize that when Peter spoke these words, they were addressed to men who had come to Jerusalem for the Pentecost feast, not to women and children. Does this mean that women are not to be baptized into Christ since this statement was addressed to men? NO!

cont.

God grants repentance which leads to salvation; and godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to life. There is no way of getting around it; that we must repent and believe; and both true desires come from God. Judas Iscariot had worldly sorrow because it lead to death; He had no understanding of Christ being God in the flesh just having offended an innocent man. He didn't want to seek forgiveness and repent for his sins; his pride wouldn't give him that option apparently.

At this point we have belief; and in order to confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we have to also do a public act of identification and show how we are dying to ourself. Jesus made it clear that if we are ashamed of Him He will be ashamed of us when He comes with His Holy angels ( Luke 9:26; following Luke 9:25 about gaining the world and losing one's soul). I would identify Baptism as being associated with belief and therefore in conjunction with it but immediately after true faith is established. Any church in good standing would ensure a person believes before submitting to the authority of Christ and symbolically being part of the Body of Christ; dead buried and raised with Him.

Believing as the initial step must be more than a mental affirmation of Christ as Lord for even the demons believe and under compulsion everyone on heaven and earth will bow in submission to this fact. To be our Lord and Savior also means a change of who our master is; rather than the god of this world Jesus is our true Master. There are actions therefore that must accompany any true profession of faith; albeit rare circumstances like the thief on the cross who didn't have time to be baptized.

There is no good reason when it can be done to wait; then one has to doubt the sincerity of one's profession.

I would say believing and being born again are pretty much simultaneous; therefore AFTER repentance and remittance from sin with Baptism to follow.

Hi Jonesdm1.

You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.

So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.

We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.

We are part of the body of Christ!

This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4

3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)

Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.

The following verses sums this up.

Romans 6:5-11.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is other verses that Parallels this.

So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.

You are now justified in the eyes of the Lord.

Thanks and God bless.

Romans 8:18-25 - written in Corinth during Paul's 3rd missionary journey - around year 57 AD;

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (According Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-57 and Luke 20:35-36)

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

...

John 3:31-36

31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.

34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.

Around 2000 years ago or much probably 67AD was written the book of Hebrews. Hebrews 6:1-3 say:

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,

2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.

3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.

Hebrews 5:12-14

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35

14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END

come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)

32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

GET READY

Philippians 3:20-21

20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing

There are 3 B's in a Christians life. In alphabetical order they are: Baptism, Believing, and being Born again.

Those 3 B's should happen in a particular order. What is that order?

Is it...

You Believe which makes you Born again, and then you can get Baptized?

You get Baptized, you get Born again, and then you Believe?

You Believe, get Baptized, and then you're born again?

etc.

I will say, I do have an answer for the order and why, but I would love to see your stance based on what the New Testament says about these 3 B's.

Praying that Lord be with you all as you draw closer to Him and His Son our risen, reigning, and returning Lord Jesus Christ.

Questions about Baptism.

1. What is baptism and what is it for?

2. Who can get baptized? (Should babies be baptized like in the RCC)

3. What conditions need to be fulfilled for someone to be baptized?

4. What is the proper mode of Baptism (sprinkling? pouring? dipping?)

My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...

1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV

24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.

JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22

21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.

22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.

Luke 21:26-27

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)

By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.

GET READY

I have been told many eons ago in college that I was a prayer warrior. Maybe I should have more of this sort of thing on this site.

If the Spirit isn't ministering in a specific way (and it is hard not knowing anyone here personally) then I am perhaps not being edifying. I would really like the Lord to speak something that is effective; although I have learned it isn't always something I am aware of which applies or encourages someone.

I would bet that a lot of reason people don't pray much for one another (maybe your experience is different) is because they simply don't love them enough to do so. I would say that this sort of expression may be a strength of some in the more "charismatic persuasion". Again that was more from my past experiences.

Not sure if it is something you can relate to; but often I feel a very strong prompting of the Sprit to either pray for someone or have a specific thing to say (or Word of Knowledge). Having discernment means you have a heightened sense of the good AND evil around you. I have prayed for a few to receive that but don't know if any have. It ain't the thing to ask for if you want your life to go easier; I'll just leave it at that.

I appreciate your recent responses. Not sure for every one person that responds how many others are incognito. Not that I need acclamation but mainly pray that there are more than a few here who are soldiers under command (as the motto of the Stryper band in one of their early albums).

As a friend where I used to live said he was "desperate" for prayer. Thus he had early morning prayers before work; which I briefly attended before I moved out of town. Let us all have this attitude.

Agape; Rich P

My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...

1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV

24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.

25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

GET READY

Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),

wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Get ready, do what GOD recommended- Isaiah 20-21

Looking to the future (Part 7).

It's nice to have my TV down the rest of the week (actually my parent's). Gives me more time on this site.

When we speak the Gospel truth and IF the Lord is coming in the not too distant future; we certainly would expect that SOME would come to Christ after the Rapture and removal of at least some of the church. Given that some people today actually STEAL Bibles; it is probably a good idea to have a few extra on standby. I imagine it will do some good after the Rapture; but no doubt the truth will be realized even with the deadly deception that aliens or some other explanation is given for the disappearance of many living AND resurrection of the dead. No doubt the 144,000 and 2 prophets as well as other believers martyred at the time will know some scripture; and no doubt also Antichrist will use much of it to attempt to prove his deity and status; power and authority (or the Satanic bible).

We should look at those who don't yet believe as both blind to the truth at present but to be given that revelation at a later date if they are indeed coming to the faith at some point. In the context of God being beyond time; of course He already sees them as they will be called; sanctified; glorified ( Romans 8:30) That's how I see it anyway.

Therefore whatever the end result is as to all who are saved and those who are lost; that is the inevitable route their current trajectory is taking them. Seeing things as they are in our own understanding is to say the least depressing. No doubt some things we will understand better in glory. God says not to look back on the former days (Ecclasiastes 7:10). No doubt evil spirits were dominating in each generation; just in a different mantra; a different motif; a different genre; or cultural norm.

As Revelation 3:11 says we should be careful not to lose our reward to another. These are days when not only many fall away but many believers lose rewards. Let us hold on!!

Looking to the future (Part 6)

In this section I am taking a realistic view at the current immigration tidal wave and statistically what collateral damage is almost certain to occur. For now we should pray for this new Mexican President who is supposed to have some more collaboration with their military. That is essential as the last attempt a few years back against a drug warlord only resulted in a retreat of the armed forces with superior firepower from the compound. The hard facts are that TENS of thousands have died in Mexico because of these cartels; with many police officers being decapitated and otherwise killed. We have no reason to expect much less when these individuals have the whole COUNTRY to roam around undeterred. That; combined with other Chinese and Muslim nationals that have come en masse in recent months and years no doubt are going to bring increasing episodes of terrorism to our country.

I am hoping that our Republican Presidential candidate can be honest and not pretend that in day one everything will suddenly get better. If a warning isn't given that in order to fix things it will have to get a whole lot worse and we need to prepare for the long haul many may be too disheartened to finish the job and he may not have the chance to have a second term. I won't comment on politics much more here but will say that the immense amounts of money on the sides of both political parties would make a third party candidate seem to stand out in contrast.

As to wise investments; it SEEMS that silver and gold finally are beginning to rise to levels that the market gurus have been predicting for some time now. It seems from a couple scriptures that either near the beginning of the Tribulaton and certainly during it gold and silver will not profit anyone and is cast into the streets. Let us prayerfully invest while we can; but not believe every prediction that tomorrow the dollar will be replaced. One world currency is before the Mark.

Luke 17:28-30

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is REVEALED. (Which of son of man is revealed? Since Moses there were several sons of man sent by our GOD as His messenger, and JESUS as GOD was the last sent around 2000 years ago)

JESUS my Lord made reference to the days of Lot and the city of Sodom to highlight and emphasize the destruction planned by GOD of the city of Sodom and neighboring cities. JESUS wanted to warn this current generation of believers in Him, how the Devil's current world will be punished and destroyed by GOD now, in this current time, even now, from now on( Revelation 11:15-18, mainly verse 18, combined with Isaiah 26:20-21.Take a look). By the Word of GOD(the Word is GOD, is the Power)Sodom and region as a whole was destroyed. By the way, GOD sent only two men to destroy Sodom and neighboring cities- Genesis 19:12-17, as GOD had spoken to Abraham, who interceded for the righteous of Sodom before GOD, unfortunately there were not found 10 righteous.

And now? The Word of GOD, the Power, is the same, so how many men will GOD send to destroy the World of Devil by the same Word, by the same Power, as He made in Sodom and neighboring cities, as was said by my Lord JESUS as example of destruction made by GOD? Yes, how many? Two or one? The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? By the way, the dismantling or destruction of all the structures of the Devil's world has already begun in this pre-tribulational period of sorows- Matthew 24:3-8- , the worst comes imediately after the end of the period of sorrows.

Get ready

Looking to the future (Part 5)

I will introduce briefly another concept which I may have mentioned in passing. That is; if we were invaded by another nation it still may not be the end; and it is possible should the Lord tarry longer than we seem to think at present that it could lead to a true revival or change of heart. Our nation's lazy work ethic has led to legions of evil because of all the free time we have accrued. Those who would survive a war would no doubt be in some sort of forced servitude; but perhaps that would help them appreciate a meal more; and any kindness. The true church would eventually arise; even from the tattered remains. Such is the case no doubt in myriad nations today as the Gospel can never be totally snuffed out.

Sadly; with the number of gun owners in this nation most people probably would die just in one on one combat. Whatever comes to pass; and as cruel as it sounds God does use calamities to SOME extent to rid the world of certain evil people. This is just as true as the fact that a disaster such as the tower at Siloam that fell didn't mean the sinners were any worse or better than anyone else; as we ALL have the same fate apart from Christ's mercy (see Luke 13:1-3). Overall; if we look at Babylon as an example God did spare some of His people and judged others with the invasion. We could have a similar fate. Nonetheless I see it as entirely plausible that we ARE Babylon; at least the economic version of it and likely could be destroyed in a day as Revelation 17 and 18 and many scriptures in Jeremiah reflect on in detail.

As a note for the present; even if the border were closed tomorrow or if it is next January this real invasion still gives us witnessing opportunities. There are innocent children and others mixed in who we should have the heart to help out; although wisdom is needed not knowing who we are dealing with. We need to stand against child sex slavery and illegal sweat shops NOW for His sake

Facing the future (part 4)

Luke 22:36 states: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

I am not going to take this posting to decide to support one viewpoint over the other as to having a weapon of protection or relying just on prayer. I will simply state that different circumstances may merit different approaches. I also will add that in the case of the passage in Luke; we are looking at defending ourselves along paths where dangerous criminals tend to hang out so that long term travel after the Lord went to heaven would necessitate this wisdom at times according to Christ. When it comes to the government; we don't see any evidence in scripture in the New Testament of active resistance but just one or two occasions when Paul appealed his beatings as a Roman citizen; which probably was primarily to continue to allow others in the same position as himself to continue to preach the Gospel for a time.

We also see that in the church age the Lord works differently then in other times. When Elijah comes as one of the two end time prophets he and the other prophet WILL indeed cause fire to come down and kill anyone resisting them. We have; therefore the final dispensation that the Lord will use signs and wonders gifts; the complete fulfillment of Joel 2 started at the time of Pentecost. (sorry about that d word it isn't necessarily favored by some but I don't know a better way of describing two such distinct periods of time)

We also see a difference; of course with the Tribulation saints who say "how long" until vengeance is given for their martyrdom ( Rev. 6:10). I am sure that since the death of all saints is precious in His sight ( Psalm 116:15) all martyrs are avenged.

Facing the future (Part 3).

As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.

We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).

When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.

As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).

Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.

Part Two: Facing the future

In our current stage; we do well to keep a healthy distance from spending a lot of time reading news. The best way to get some idea of the truth is to read alternative as well as mainstream news and try to piece things together. We don't want to react like Job in chapter 3; verse 25 when he said that essentially his worst fears came upon him. Easier said than done; of course.

The mainstream narrative wants us to bring about a "self fulfilling prophecy" by conditioning the masses to react a certain way then have a "solution" to a crisis that itself is worse than the problem. It frequently exacerbates an issue by pitting one side against another; and usually is bias leaning far too much one way or another in international affairs. Alternative news brings a different angle but still can be biased. This helps us usually to hear about what is going on in nations that are of little interest to the West where nonetheless significant things are occurring.

We know; of course that He is with us until the end of the Age; whether that be defined as the end of the church age; or the Second Coming. There are people still coming to faith; no matter how bleak things are. Think of how miraculous that is; with the majority (70 something percent) believing in God about 40 years ago; and now 26 percent (unknown poll my Pastor mentioned Sunday). By and large the churches are turning into the Whore of Babylon; let's face it between the political agenda and the merging of religions we definitely see a sinking ship with churches in general today. We need to keep in mind that the Laodicean church still has a remnant in it. There is still a Philadelphia church; I would argue even if the main period in history for that typology passed a hundred years ago. As Daniel says none of the wicked only the wise understand ( Daniel 12:10) and the righteous will shine like the sun ( Matt. 13:43). Let us remain as "salt and light" ( Matt. 5:13).

Part One: Facing the future

To begin; let us squarely face reality as it is. Things are going from bad to worse; generally. There are some areas of the world where things may have actually improved of late; Thailand seems to be one example as to where until the last few years property could be obtained relatively inexpensively and it seems a lot has been done in general for the country to be more liveable; at least from the posting from someone that I have read for a while. Others such as Clayton Morris; who works at Redacted News and lives in Portugal seems to feel the same way; generally up until recently the cost of living is reasonable; and it has been relatively safe. Even an ad for Save The Children has a child admit that things got better for a while before they went into another decline; which I assume relates greatly to the drought cycle causing famine.

It seems that we all are getting used to seeing police cars on the side of the road (at least in the better suburban areas that are still enforcing the law); and many of us are going to have to learn it seems to face a new day after being a block or two away from the latest shooting; or even being slightly injured in some criminal event and going back to work in a day or two; much like living in a war zone where in some areas there is still some business as usual.

As I have stated before; dying to self is usually a process in sanctification until our bodily death; whether by natural or unnatural violence against us. Just how much time is left or how bad things will get before the Rapture and the Tribulation when there are "no holds barred" is the question. As with all declines of societies and with the rise of dictatorships imprisonment and physical assaults come gradually after harassment and intimidation. It seems for now mob rule is the norm; it likely will have to be replaced with severe measures no matter which political party is in control before we have total anarchy.

Reply to Richard's prayer:

Thank you for your prayer: All parts are helpful to strengthen us on our journey. However, I was helped whole heartedly

with this part. May God bless you where ever you are_wherever you go_

all the time. Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.

LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you.

Thanks___

Faith is not a life-long journey.

Richard,

It sounds like we listen to some of the same music. I have a CD of the Franz Family in my collection. They broke up as a group after the mother passed away. Emmitt Franz plays dobro now with the Petersen's (another great group) as you already know. I also have three CD's of the Petersen's, Homesick for a Country being my favorite. The song "I know who holds tomorrow" is probably my favorite on that album, almost as good as Alison Krauss and the Cox family.

Sorry, I know this is not your main topic, but I got a little excited knowing someone else here listens to the same music as myself.

End of prayer for facing 2024 and beyond

Lord; many are tired and perhaps like your Disciples at the Garden or all the 10 virgins falling asleep. May we learn how to have our strength renewed and be able to make proper "declarations" based on Your covenant promises; like Jacob did wrestling the Angel of God. May we see prayers that have gone for years finally being answered as well as having confidence that some may not be answered until you call us home or in the Tribulation or even Millennium. Help us love the unlovable; praying for our enemies; and be particularly sensitive to those you have repeatedly made to cross our paths no matter how difficult that it may be. Let us not be discouraged by vile words which cast doubts as to our faith being genuine which the enemy will use others to speak forth; let us realize that our reward is great as you said in the Sermon on the Mount. May it be You that they see and You that we truly find as our life and our hope and strength; and may we acknowledge that we are nothing more than sinners saved by grace. May we ever find time to pray for those on the mission field.

Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.

LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you. May we realize our treasure and reward in heaven is growing proportionate to the suffering if it is indeed in You and not due to our own sins. Bring the good fruit in us to maturity; and purge us to produce more in Your timing. In Jesus' Name; Amen.

Goodnight for now.

Rich P

Further prayer for what is about to transpire from 2024 on.

Lord; I ask that your people will learn at least in some churches to use various true spiritual gifts to edify one another; not just for their own worship and praise where it begins. I would ask for extremism to be avoided; so that there isn't manifestations that don't stem directly from you but also that we don't let our hearts become as a stone to seeing spiritual life wherever it comes.

I am particularly grieved for those who are living in sexual immorality. Sin must be exposed; give us wisdom when to rebuke a brother in the Lord and when we need to give time and space for the Lord or the enemy of our souls to work on a man to bring him back to his senses.

IF is is possible; may there be some sort of move of God especially with the youth that is lasting and kept from gross doctrinal or lifestyle error that contradicts the Gospel and ultimately quenches the Spirit. I feel it is far more important at this time to pray that the true believing church will discern error and run from it; and realize that JUDGMENT BEGINS at the house of God.

To be jealous for His Name's sake; may it characterize those who represent the true move of God. May those who are in God honoring marriages be able to be given the respect; and may the world not be able to overcome what your covenant relationships represent. Also; I ask for many miraculous restorations of marriages and to keep many others from having marriages destroyed due to church approval or lack of efforts to deal with these matters.

May we be able to warn as the Psalms say those who are unaware they are heading for destruction; particularly when it comes to the sanctity of human life. When persecution or martyrdom must come; may it be in defense of life and may it finally bring a TRUE ending of abortion or severe scaling back. May we all choose our battles carefully and in prayer so that we don't fight for things that are fading away.

Forging ahead: How to remain steadfast in the faith from 2024 onward.

To avoid hypocrisy; and out of necessity for the topic at hand I will put out this prayer:

Lord and Savior and Master Jesus: In a world that is held captive like the passengers on the Titanic; we uphold your promises as believers to be seated currently in heavenly places. We are in the world but not of it. We serve a risen Savior; and learn to suffer as He did and as the Word of God says You live within us; those who truly believe. This is not self pity; but victorious living when we know that the one we serve stands victorious and is seated at the right hand of God awaiting His command to commence with taking His church home and initiating the Tribulation judgments starting at the first seal and continuing until the last bowl of wrath.

We acknowledge that all over the world your saints are going through trials; and that principally they are in the spiritual dimension either direct persecution and suffering; or alternatively temptation to sin through deception. I thank you Lord that there is still a vestige of the blessings in this nation of adequate food and clothing and shelter for many of us; but certainly not all in this country. May we be ready to give that up as the situation requires; and trust You to allow us to be the "head and not the tail" and have resources set aside as He gives us the ability for those who will be suffering lack in the breakdown of the economy and society at least before you take out Your church. YOU and you alone give us the strength to have courage and not fear; even the fear of death. We don't know how many will have to die of unnatural causes in the near future; or even know for sure our nation will make it until the Tribulation; although it would seem some from every country will. Help us all to hold to what is truly of you and teach us what we cannot recognize as remnants of our old man that give us comfort as well as keeping us from knownevil

The Franz family was a good group say 10 years ago; now the one member is in the Peterson's and they don't seem to have much of a Christian ethic anymore. The most haunting song was something to the effect of "Wasting Away" which probably is the most convicting song I have ever heard describing the end stages of life for an unredeemed sinner.

As to this series of posting upcoming; it isn't something I even want to discuss. I have my own issues at present with unsaved parents and conflict in the home where I may be forced to get them medical care against their wishes. I plan to challenge them in writing when I take a road trip in a couple weeks; as repeated discussions with my mom have led nowhere or to ambivalent response. I have people praying for me so won't belabor the point; but could always use more.

I feel that it is necessary to warn of what is probably fairly obvious coming to our country. I wish I could say that I'm "gung-ho" if the Republican candidate becomes President again but I have my own concerns with him as an individual. Also it will take YEARS of painstaking effort before anything can become better; this business about things instantly being great is pie in the sky I would say; and unless we are readied for a struggle; not only the government but the populus as a whole will stop well short of any real gains. The situation at my church who I won't mention by name involved a lady who used to be Muslim but now is a Christian and what she will have to face after she returns from visiting town to her husband (will even leave the nationality out). I am sure this is commonplace; I only know one other person who was going back to family in Iran briefly in the past who said he would be burned alive if he told them of his conversion.

We are more than conquerors in Christ; and He works all things out for the good for those who love Him; including spiritual rewards. Truth be told; lukewarm "fence walkers" won't stand in this hour.

Hi Richard,

Great post! We are surely living in a peculiar time. It amazes me how young people see everything today as being normal. But of course, if that's all they know, it becomes the norm. I grew up in the 60's and 70's and things were so much better back then. The way things are going now, it can't be much longer before the Lord returns. At least, that should be our hope and prayer.

With everything going on in the world today, it's hard for us to remain focused on the Lord, but that's what we as believers are called to do, keeping our eyes fixed on Christ. Satan doesn't play fair. Everything in this world is just a distraction to keep our minds occupied and away from the Lord.

I have been enjoying reading your posts. Thank you! Also, the song Wayfaring Stranger is one of my all-time favorites and Hayde Bluegrass Orchestra does an amazing job on that song. Their rendition is by far my favorite. I stumbled on them about three years ago and was curious about what a bluegrass orchestra was all about.

I'm a big fan of bluegrass music and bluegrass gospel. I play guitar, banjo, mandolin, dobro, and a little bit of fiddle. I was not too sure about Hayde Bluegrass Orchestra at first, mainly because an accordion in a bluegrass band is unheard of. I was completely impressed by their music and their lead singer Rebekka Nilsson has an amazing voice. I highly recommend others to listen to Wayfaring Stranger by these folks. Just don't get hooked and listen to it over, and over, and over again like I did. I just couldn't help myself. What a voice!

Blessings to you!

Richard,

My sister in law from grew up in Tanzania and she said that Sunday was a day of being in church all day long and into the evening with fellowship, prayer, and worship. I wish our churches in our country would begin to practice this opportunity now so that it will be established when the severest of trials come upon us.

Peachofateach07,

Thanks for the update.37 weeks is full term so she has that going for her. Hopefully the fluid on the brain will decrease dramatically from here on. I pray that God will cause her to be able to intake what is provided for her so she can be nourished and grow during this time.

Where we stand at present.

The state of our country is indeed grave. Before beginning to analyze what is likely to happen; as well as new challenges we will face as believers and the state of the church I will once again give a strong admonition to persevere in prayer. In Matthew West's song "Don't stop praying" (assuming that is the right title) he has a line that says let your knees wear out the floor. We need to take heart that Christ has won the war; but the individual battles rage on ever more fierce as the Day of His coming approaches.

It seems clear from a brief scan of today's prayer requests on this site that some at least are quite tired and discouraged. We should all desire to be as the Philadelphia church who had "little strength" but holds on until the end. Perhaps many churches will only start praying when seeing individuals press forth and seek opportunities to get together rather than waiting for a formal time at the church for such a meeting. We need to heed certain foreign churches that basically spend Sunday ALL day in fellowship and in many cases hours in prayer. I am of the firm belief that some prayer should be available DAILY even in a small church and even if it sadly has to be virtual (much preferred live). Pastors need to seek prayer for their sermons; and Deacons and Elders should be transparent as well. Without prayer there can't be very effective evangelism; I know that from my limited experience on the streets and testimonies of others much more committed to that endeavor.

With persecution inevitable in the near future of all forms there is a risk of many shrinking back without preparatory prayer.

This can involve wisdom as well in planning for resources for others in times of need. I would also say that a strong focus needs to be on the Gen Z crowd; according to some poll my Pastor brought up today only 26 percent of them believe in God.

The suicide rate and self destruction of youth is a number 1 killer already