Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 323

In the Hayde Bluegrass Album there is a song about the Devil's deception called "Heaven and hell". Part of the last stanza says It's a race to the bottom

And you're there with me.

This folk group has Wayfaring Stranger and some other at least nominal Christian songs. But those two lines above really bring brings home an accurate picture of where society is; and the deception of the enemy. Perhaps this is even more on my mind today after ending 1 Peter today and warnings of deception from the enemy of our souls that our Pastor preached on; as well as a lady there who is visiting and faces persecution from her family for being a Christian. Just the local news is ever spinning out of control; from a couple dozen shot in Akron; to a double homocide in the Philly area where I live; to a shooting of 9 where I used to live in Penn Hills; PA where there were 2 or 3 fatalities from what I last heard; to massive riots involving hundreds at various beach locals in New Jersey where 12 were arrested.

The encouraging thing is; of course the fact that these brief trials are nothing in comparison of the glory to come. ( 2 Cor. 4:17).

Nonetheless; as Phillipians 1 states which we are doing an in depth Sunday school lesson on; Paul was in chains for years after establishing his first church; who he was able to rejoice in and remain in constant prayer for. Thankfully they were an integral part in growing and giving in his time of need.

Today I also had a long debate with a Christian friend of mine as to how much we should take on resisting all the things going on politically that seem to be stacking up badly for Christians. I brought up the point that the focus has to be on spreading the Gospel first which I would say he agrees with. These certainly are not easy times to live in.

In my next post I am going to take a matter of fact view of exactly where we are and what is almost certain to transpire in the

next 6 months to couple of years should the Lord tarry.

Sam, I will be praying for you baby. Our first granddaughter was born May 28th. Such a blessing to have these babies in our lives now.

It is stressful to have a baby in NICU. So much to be concerned about and such a disruption to the mommy/baby togetherness that is so treasured in the first weeks. I hope Mom is able to be with baby as much as possible.

Our second child was re-admitted at 5 days due to newborn sepsis-a very serious infection. I was able to stay with him night and day while he was in an isolation bed with monitors and IV hooked up to him. I was able to remove him from the bed to nurse and rock. I was glad to be able to be with him. The hospital he was in had an unused wing where I could have a private room with a shower for when I needed to sleep. He was in the hospital for five days. He is almost 37 now, but I remember like it was just yesterday. May your baby grow and thrive and come home soon. Was she early or is there a different concern?

Hello Jesse,

It is the practice of the Lutherans today to pour water over the head of the over the one being baptized. I do not know how they did in the 1500's when Lutheranism began.

Giannis,

I agree with all you have written here.

Although I was also baptized as an infant, when I was in college I did choose to be baptized by immersion as I wanted to make that choice to obey what the Lord said, to believe, repent and be baptized. Doing so did not invalidate my infant baptized, yea, it affirmed it as my parents presenting me to God to work His grace in me. And that did happen. But as an adult, I wished to obey Jesus' command for myself.

Some churches refuse to re-baptize one who was baptized as an infant, believing that speaks against the efficacy of the former baptism. I do not think like this. The Bible does not say anything about this matter, neither recommending or forbidding.

One thing we do not know about the NT church is whether infants and children were baptized when a whole family is said to have been baptized. So, we cannot really say that it was or was not practiced. Jesus did say to not hinder the children/infants to come to Him, so that is one indication that we are to present our children to Him to be baptized and be initiated into the body of Christ.

When my sons were born, we did not baptize them as we wished for them to be baptized when they understood and believed the gospel and desired to be baptized. That never happened for them. But I do pray persistently for God to return them to faith and trust in Him.

Also, I have seen many people who were baptized as infants/children who have walked away from the Lord. I do believe that God will draw them back to Him at some point, but in the mean time, parents should pray persistently for their children to come to Jesus as adults.

So, which is the better route for Christian parents to take? I am not sure. In my life, being baptized as an infant showed its fruits from a young age as I have always known that God loves me and that Jesus died for my sins to save me. He has worked in my life from the start and kept me in the true faith. He provided His grace and mercy to me.

Hi Tdianne,

As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.

All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38 Acts 8:12 Acts 8:16 Acts 10:48 Acts 19:5 Acts 22:16 Romans 6:3 Galatians 3:27 Colossians 2:12 Ephesians 4:5.

Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18 Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12 Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17 Luke 10:17 Acts 4:7 Acts 4:30 Acts 16:18.

We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16 John 6:47 Acts 16:31 1 John 3:23 1 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.

God bless,

RLW

GiGi, 2/2

The other thing often people say is that it is not important to be water baptized, it is the baptism in the Spirit that matters. Well, no. Those are two completely different things. Doing the first does not exlude us from the second and vise versa. Water baptism is something we have to do and the Spirit baptism is something that God has to do. We obey to God and God sends His grace to us. This is how this relationship works. It is a covenant, which means that both parts have to do their obligations so that that agreement is valid. Anyway, I know you agree to most I have written and if there are some things we are not in agreement it doesn't relly matter, we are still brother and sister and we are both going to Heaven. When I go up there one of the first things I will do is asking the Lord all my questions. GBU

Hi GiG,i 1/2

I know that the churches eventually departed from the practices of the early church but this is why we read the scriptures, to go back to the practices and beliefs of that ancient church, isn't it? Otherwise why reading the Bible? So when we see that we do something wrong then we must correct ourselves, as individuals and also as a whole church. If we think like, it doesn't matter this, it doesn't matter that, it doesn't matter the other and the other, then we end up at something completely different. If you draw two lines that are not precisely parallel, in the begining we can't see any difference, but after a distance one goes to the US and the other goes to Greece. I believe you understand what I am saying. And most of the todays churches have gone thousand miles away from that early church.

I agree with the anabaptists at this point. A valid baptism is through the fully immersion in water. Infant baptism? In my church it also isn't considered valid. I was baptized as an infant in the Greek Orthodox church but when I was born again at the age of 34 I had to bury that old Giannis in the grave which is represented by water and raise up to walk a new life. Anyway.

The other question that often people ask is "do I have to be baptized to be saved"? And the answers are sometimes like " God saves and not my effords/works", which for me is something misleading. Why? Because it gives the impression to people that they can disobey God's commandements and still get away with it. Doesn't the Bible command us to be baptized? Yes, it does. So why do we still talk about it and not just do it straightaway. Isn't disobedience to God considered a sin? Yes it is. So if I don't repent and do the right thing, am I still eligible for His Kingdom? ie if God tells me not to steal and I ignore Him and keep stealing and don't repent, am I still going to Heaven? I doubt that.

See part 2

I believe that when we are born, we are born from the womb which is full of water. We are born into sin, because of Adam and Eve sinning. Being Baptised is being reborn into the Glory of God. So, total submersion would be a cleansing of the whole body under water just as we were born into the world through total immersion. Total submersion is being completely reborn in Christ, and is also a public proclamation to the world that we are being born a Child of God cleansed throughly of our sins through total submersion. Again, this is just my belief but to me it makes sense

I hope i am not interfering when i post my beliefs on baptism, but i believe baptism is of a great importance in our Christian Walk. As i understand it it is as such. When we are born, we are submersed in water in our mothers womb. Now, since man and woman sinned in the garden of eden, when we are born, we are born into sin. I understand about reaching the age of accountability and all of that, but here is my two cents worth. Because we are born on this earth of woman we are born into sin. When we are baptised we are again submersed into water completely, to be born again into fellowship with Christ. Thus acknowledging to the world that we are no longer of this world, we are just in this world. Our submersion into the water allows us to be born again into Christ. Baptism is also a way of telling and showing the world that we are Children of Christ, and baptism is proof of that. Baptism washes away our sins and we begin a new life with Christ as a baby and learn as a baby growing continually in the knowledge and Glory of Christ. I pray each of you grow continually in Christ as i am attempting to so Christ can receive the Glory. Amen

GiGi,

Sorry, I should have asked in my other reply to you. Is what you're telling me, is this the way the Lutherans baptize today? What I was told, and what I shared with Tdianne was how they baptized around the year 1600. If you have different information on how they did it back then, can you share that with me? Thanks, off to bed now. I am two hours later than where you're at!

God bless!!!

John 16:24.

The disciples prayed to the Father, so Jesus said, "you have not asked anything in MY name yet" I believe Jesus did not mean that whatever we asked is regarded as nothing, in comparison to everything we could still ask. I believe Jesus taught His disciples to pray to the Father, but now he is starting to show them that they could pray to the Father in His name, even after His death more so because He completed the work of salvation through His death and His resurrection and was taken up, to be seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede on our behalf. Now we pray... Father in the name of Jesus...Before and in the Old Testament prayer was made to the Father.

Thanks for opportunity to share.

GiGi,

Thanks for sharing that info on Lutheran baptism. I never actually witnessed how the Lutherans performed their baptisms. What I shared was something that was passed on to me years ago.

Blessings to you and congrats on your new addition to the family. Grandchildren are such a blessing. I have two, a grandson and granddaughter.

Kevin,

Your prayers and desires for the rescue and reformation of the Catholic church is a common action of those who have left this denomination. Goo for you. We should be praying for those who call themselves Christian yet teach wrongly concerning the gospel concerning salvation. I agree with you in your prayers for this sect.

Jesse, well said, it is the Spirit that baptizes us and indwells us.

One thing, the Lutherans do not sprinkle-they pour water over the head of the one being baptized three times saying the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father (pour water) and the Son (pour water) and of the Holy spirit (pour water). I think this is the way that Episcopalians baptize, Catholics, and other "non-immersers" I don't know who sprinkles.

But in any case, our baptism is our testament of what God has done in us through His

Spirit to unify us with Christ and the church.

Tdianne,

(Part 3):

The Jews had no idea why they immersed 3 times for their baptism. But after Messiah came, and when Messiah gave the believing Jews the commission to go out and preach the gospel to the Gentiles, He said, baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, three times for the Trinity. Very interesting background!

By now, you might be thinking I really haven't answered your question. Well, when I think of true baptism, I think of the ministry of Jesus Christ. According to scripture, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Lord's ministry. Baptism means two things, cleansing and identification.

When Christ comes into my life, I am cleansed because He sends His Spirit into my life. Jesus' ministry was to baptize people with the Holy Spirit, not water baptism. The qualification for belonging to Christ isn't what I experience in the past, nor what my decision in the past was, but rather it is based on the presence of Christ in me.

God's Spirit in me is the guarantee that I belong to the Lord. Water baptism comes after salvation. True baptism is when Jesus baptizes us with His Spirit. Is there a right way and wrong way to be water baptized. That's something each individual should decide for themselves. It's between them and the Lord. I say full immersion because that's the way the early church did it!

Blessings to you!

Tdianne,

(Part 2):

Now, when we get into the New Testament, we learn about the ministry of John the Baptist known as Yochanan ha Matbil, John the baptizer. The immerser is the literal translation from the Greek.

Also, John's baptism is different from Christian baptism. John's baptism only had to do with the Hebrew or Jewish people. They had to come down and be baptized by John to show their repentance in order to receive the Messiah. Baptism amongst the Jewish people meant change. Anything that was a major change in their life, they had a baptism for it.

Also, something very interesting about Jewish baptism is that the Jews, they immerse. It wasn't until around 1300 A.D. that the Catholic Church began sprinkling. Around 1600 is when the Lutheran group, who eventually became the Lutherans, began to use sprinkling. The Jews used immersion. Everything had to be immersed and you had to be immersed three times. Even to this day the Jews immerse three times in their baptism.

Today, the reason why many immerse once is because Constantine decided around 313 AD to change it from three times to one. He hated the Jews, so whatever the Jews did, he changed it. He did this just to get back at the Jews. So, Constantine says the Jews dunk three times, so we are going to dunk once! And that is where we got our baptism today.

Hello Tdianne,

(Part 1):

I would like to share my thoughts concerning your question. You ask about a true baptism. What is a true baptism? What does that even mean? If we are only speaking of water baptism, there are so many different beliefs on water baptism in the church today. Some sprinkle, some immerse, some dunk once, and some dunk three times. Some baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and some say the only valid baptism is in "Jesus' name only." So, where does that leave us? It leaves us "scratching our heads" and asking ourselves which one is the correct way?

Before I go any further, I just want to say that whatever way a person chooses to be water baptized is up to them and the Lord. I myself believe it should be by full immersion as it was in the early church. But this is just my belief and please allow me to explain why I believe this way.

If I go all the way back to the book of Exodus, I see that baptism began with Moses. Now the person who was doing the baptizing, he wouldn't touch anybody. He's just the witness. Baptizing in those days was that you go under yourself and come up yourself. The witness is just there to say you didn't make it because some part of your body didn't go completely under the water. It could have been a person's ear or maybe their hair was not under the water. The witness would be there to make sure they went all the way under the water. If not, they had to do it all over.

Conclusions for now on assurance of salvation and "eternal security".

I have gone on for some length now on an attempt to best explain the doctrines of grace as to Predestination along with our responsibility to respond to the Lord's promptings at every stage; from His initial calling to us to be saved to our deathbed.

It is clear that sin can affect us and even destroy our witness and end our life prematurely; but someone truly saved; although making it as though through the fire will not LOSE their salvation.

As to assurance of salvation we have understanding with the MIND of Christ ( 1 Cor. 2:16); thus just as natural man knows and understands that he exists and is conscious of the world around him; a true believer is aware of the Lord living in him as His sheep hear His voice and know Him and will not follow another ( John 10:27-28).

There are warnings in scripture as pertaining to those who would claim miracles in Christ's name and yet aren't saved. Surely Judas Iscariot would be one example of this. For someone who is out for themselves it doesn't matter to them whether it is God or the Devil who is making these supernatural phenomenon occur. It brings money; prestige; influence etc to those who are propegating falsehood (megachurch type persona especially) and naturally the goats want to rake in the financial benefits (decieving and being decieved ( 2 Tim. 3:13). This is more than the case of the Corinthians who were in disorder utilizing spiritual gifts for if we read carefully it was not for false manifestations or for the gifts themselves that they were reprimanded.

Hopefully this series of postings brings encouragement to someone. Doctrine matters; but indeed it is the case that the more we know the more questions can seem to arise. The truth is we can't totally understand the Lord or His truths. We can take confidence in God's covenants as He never breaks them and in that mindset know that a true believer has passed from death to life

Further insights on my last hypothesis

I am trying with this subject not to go to the extreme of saying that anything we do can save ourselves. What I will say is that what we do can bring us into condemnation at least until He truly lives within us; and we are truly saved. I will also state that EVERY step to salvation is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Even hearing the message which has the potential to bring someone to salvation is confined to this life; we don't get any second chances after we die.

We all start out in this life hearing the Gospel message and responding one way or another. We have to ask how the Spirit works in each part of the process. I will state that scripture seems to make it clear that even if we don't understand the mysteries of the church and how the Spirit indwells someone who is a believer prior to salvation no one in hell from all scripture we see on the subject is there without sins convicting their consciences in this life. Hearing the Word causes a reaction for anyone hearing it; whether believing or rejecting it. One can come to Christ after hearing the Word multiple times (as I did) but the person once they hear it and understand in their minds cannot say they are unaware of the basic truths of the Gospel; that is if presented correctly. I believe that true repentance only comes from the Lord but as 2 Corinthians 7:10 states that repentance leads TO salvation (see also 2 Timothy 2:25 on God GRANTING repentance). Logically; a person must HEAR the word; then have true repentance and then act on it. I would argue at that stage repentance first involves a DESIRE then definite ACTION to turn away from sin; and more importantly our former LIFESTYLE of sin. Also; a true believer continues in the faith until the end; but for some that involves God having to severely discipline a person; and as Corinthians states; some have "fallen asleep" taking communion unworthily; others are given over to Satan but still saved.

Giannis

part 2.

Just to finish up my thought. If someone who was baptized as an infant grows up believing in Jesus and knows the truth about how they are saved through Him, as I was the case for me, do not need to be rebaptized, but can if they wish. Someone who was baptized as an infant who grew up in faith and departs from the faith, they may wish to be re-baptized when they return to the Lord. It isn't baptism that is the heart of the matter, but regeneration and confession of one's faith in Jesus as Savior that is most important. How God brings that about in each person may differ in areas of: age at which one consciously believes the gospel, church practices chosen by one's parents when one was an infant or a child, etc,

I am glad I was baptized as an infant by parents who believed that God does work in and through baptism of their children, because whatever is not of faith is not valid. God honors the concern for their childrens' salvation and intention to bring them up in the faith. The Holy Spirit works in the lives of children baptized young to keep them growing in faith He provides.

Salvation is all of God and not of man, so we should have peace about the means of baptism, trusting God loves all He draws to Him whether from infancy and chlldhood or later as teens or adults. We can acknowledge that God is working out His will in the lives of such and know that He continues His work of shaping believers over time.

Hello Giannis, I do agree with you that baptism should be by immersion most of the time, But in the years following the apostles in the early second century, there were allowances made for baptizing people when deeper water was not available. Unfortunately, over the centuries, baptism by full immersion was slowly fazed out to the point that sprinkling became the norm over immersion. The Greek word for baptism, as you said does mean to immerse. During the reformation years, the anabaptists began to reinstitute full immersion for baptism. The problem arose in their declaring that only those fully immersed in "believer's baptism" were truly baptized validly. Therefore meaning that all who had been baptized by sprinkling and/or as infants and children were not validly baptized and so needed to be rebaptized. This stance cause a great deal of division within the reformation church.

I wish that in today's churches that baptism by immersion was the norm, but this is not the case and I am not one to demand as being invalid any of the baptisms that occurred in ways that differ from the anabaptists then and of today. The normal ways that the apostles baptized and celebrated the Lord's Supper have slowly changed over the early centuries to the point that we do not know how they really performed these ordinances. So, I think the important thing is that after one is converted that they should seek to be baptized as a profession and witness to the saving work of the Holy Spirt inn regeneration and of Jesus on the cross, and of the Father who draws us to Christ. Anyone who is old enough to be aware of their conversion to Christ can make the choice to be baptized. But many people die after conversion and before they were baptized and that does not exclude them from the kingdom of God. Also, those who were baptized as infants and come to understand their conversion do not need to be re-baptized as the anabaptists insist. They can if they wish. see part 2

Hi Chris: You are right and I sincerely apologize. I did mean it that way and I shouldn't have said that. So I hope you will forgive me and I'll keep trying, through the Lord, to do better in my comments. :( God Bless :)

Luke 6 says in these two verses: 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

And John 14:23

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).

I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate

evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in

the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.

At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.

Hello Tdianne

My belief differs from GiGi's as I believe that a person has to be immersed in water during the water baptism.

In Colossians 2:11-12 it says

"11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

In Romans 6:3:7 it says:

"3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7.For he that is dead is freed from sin.".

So the baptism in water signifies the burial of the old sinful man and the raise of the new man. The baptism is actually the burial of the old dead sinful man. To be buried with Christ into His death one has to be fully immersed in His death/grave/water.

Sorry but sprinkling with water, in my opinion, means nothing. On top of that the word baptism which originates from greek means immersion/going under. In the Book of Acts (9:26-40) we can read the story with Philipp and that eunuch. Another story is John's baptism. In the NT we don't see anybody to be water baptized by sprinkling. GBU

Daniel 2:40-49

40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall BREAK IN PIECES and CONSUME all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.

49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Get ready

Tdiane,

If you were baptized into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, AND you believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, the baptism is valid, whether by immersion or sprinkling.

Christina,

I am happy to pray for you today.

Heavenly Father, we come before You today in the name of Your Son, Jesus our Lord asking for healing and peace for Christina. Lift up her spirit and heal her mind from the unhealthy thoughts of depression. Take back what the devil has stolen from Christina that she may be joyful in You and hope in You. Lead her in the reading of Your Word that she may be encouraged and be filled with praise for You. Prevent Christina from slipping deeper into depression but instead bring her out of it. We ask this of You, Father, because You are near to the faint of heart and those broken in their spirit. Amen.

Re.11:15-19KJV

The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.

...

18And the nations were(WILL BE)angry,and thy WRATH is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.

19And the temple of GOD was(will be)opened in heaven,and there was seen(then will be seen)in his temple the ark of his testament.

Re.21:8-But the fearful(COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.

Get ready

1Corinthians 15:24-27

24The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and power. (according 2Peter 3:7-18)

25For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For GOD hath put all things under His feet.But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.

Get ready

Revelation 21:2-4

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from GOD out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and GOD himself shall be with them, and be their GOD. And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Are you ready? they that are ready will be with Him to the marriage: and the door is shut. The foolish virgins still are far away buying oil.

More on assurance of salvation or "eternal security"

As stated before space ran out in the last post; Romans 8:16 shows the communication between our spirit and His Spirit who resides within all true believers ( John 14:23; see also Eph. 3:17). For Him to RESIDE in our souls we must be born again.

And being children of God we also are made aware of opportunities which God gives us (i.e. "good works") that will be rewarded in heaven someday that are imperishable ( 1 Cor. 9:25; Matt. 6:19-21). Keep in mind the end of that passage stating that wherever your treasure is; your heart is also (loosely translated).

Again; as I have stated a LOT on this site; God's method is to chastise all those He loves (let the reader find the scriptures). There is no desire for this in the flesh; as it is stated in Hebrews 12:11 to be disciplined in this way. We learn to recognize and appreciate this "pruning" effort ( John 15:2); for without it we would be in danger of producing no fruit and in the end being burned (in everlasting punishment). Our confidence is that in the end we are made into a glorious image; and reflect perfectly His radiance as He truly IS our life. Our reward; therefore comes from Him and in reality is HIS reward. He will; of course have His saints rule and reign with Him as part of our inheritance.

Another point to be made is an effectual witness has to be bold in their testimony and bring the fear of the Lord as well as demonstrate His love. It is therefore as Philippians 1:28 states a "token of their perdition" that we remain steadfast in the confidence of all that He has promised us. Our coming exaltation to rule and reign with Christ isn't brought forth by arrogance on our part; but nonetheless the unnerving thing to those who hear our witness is that we are; indeed already seated in heavenly places. ( Eph. 2:6). Christ also overcame and is seated at the right hand of the Father. God will be magnified whether hell or heaven is our end.

Eternal security considered further

Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5) wouldn't be in scripture unless these things were possible. Just as there are conflicts in a true believer in regard to the flesh contending with the Spirit; we also recognize that Jesus Himself is working in and through us; we are just the mouthpieces and messengers. The Lord asks us to do many things that are impossible in the flesh; in fact ALL things actually are impossible for unregenerate man as they are spiritually dead; and we can do nothing apart from Him.

One insight in testing our faith to see if it is real is to see if God is drawing men to Himself through us; and with the company we keep. This is a difficult task as we see wheat and tares growing together. To follow Biblical discipleship is in many ways different from the way it is perceived today in many evangelical churches in particular. Multiplying numbers of new converts to keep the spiritual generations ever evolving cannot be at the expense of weeding out those who aren't truly committed to the task. This is what Christ did challenging many who wished to follow Him; as well as challenging the thoughts of even the 12 Apostles on a deeper level than with the masses. Our approach isn't the same as to being able to know all men's thoughts before they speak; but we must unapologetically be uncompromising with the Word so that error doesn't have a way of creeping in-at least as much as we can avoid having it do so. Basically; those who are truly in Christian fellowship will focus on prayer for one another and the Word as a guide to all of their life.

I have detailed these postings with evidences of being a true believer before tackling the "assurance of salvation". I will now look at some points to think about as to having confidence of "eternal security".

First and foremost there is Romans 8:16 showing how those who truly believe KNOW they are saved. More in next post.