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You may have misunderstood my comments, believing that I was denouncing works as the proper response to a genuine faith. Not at all, works that follow such a God-given faith must exist, or else it is no faith at all (and James deals with this quite well). So, it is not a work that results from faith that I refer to, but a work that must accompany faith to make our salvation real & effective.
The point I tried to make earlier, was that water baptism that accompanies repentance, belief, and faith, is a true baptism and not a work for it is part & parcel of one's testimony of a new life identified and received in Christ. And this is what I read in the Word by the many examples given ( Acts 2:38,41; Acts 8:12,13; Acts 8:36-38; Acts 9:17,18; Acts 10:21,44-48; Acts 16:14,15; Acts 16:30-33; Acts 18:8). All these folk were baptized immediately, or very soon after repenting and believing. Baptism here was not a 'work' added to salvation, but a very real part of one's witness before man & within oneself. In those days (as in some countries now), many would have suffered great loss or ostracization for turning to Christ, so baptism at that early stage was truly a bold declaration of love for the Savior & turning away from religion (& family) as a very real part of conversion.
Anything we do that adds to our salvation (even water baptism, if we deem it necessary to make our salvation real), is a work. And if that work, whether baptism, doing good deeds for others, attending to Jewish Law, etc., ensures our salvation, then our salvation is no longer of faith, but of works. For the salvation of God through His Son to be effective in our lives, it must be devoid of anything that attaches to that God-given faith; for that faith does save when it remains pure, free from all associations.
I've went through my post to you and don't see what you mean!
If you're referring to when I referenced the perfection of Jesus and said
God's standard for perfection is not something you do for a little while.
Perfection is to be as Christ is!
"You probably wouldn't adhere to that thought much because you deny his deity.
Here's what I meant and I believe we have went over this before.
I don't believe Jesus "perfection" depended on him finishing his ministry here on earth sinless!
I don't believe Jesus had to become the perfect Lamb of God by achieving a sinless life!
I believe Jesus was that perfect unblemished Lamb from God while he was in Mary's womb!
He was conceived by the Holyspirit!
He couldn't be nothing but perfect because he is God.
Only his shed blood can atone for our sins by dying in our place and only he can continue to atone for our sins.
You can't sin and then turn around and cleanse yourself with sinful hands!
We never will be able to do that in these sinful bodies and our righteousness is as filthy rags.
I wasn't criticizing you for not believing in the deity of Christ.
I was saying you would have to have deity yourself as Christ does to endure as you describes it.
I hope this clears this up.
Blessings.
Blessings.
sorry for the confusion, I indeed got confused in my last sentence. So, summarizing that last post and correcting the last verse from the chapter of Matthew: if Jesus said we are evil and should... what does that have to do with baptism?
The problem our nature. This echoes the "law of sin" Paul describes in Romans 7. We have a inherent tendency to sin. Bless
If we strip the veil from this subject; we end up with either worship of God or the Devil. What is less obvious except to the elect is how the lies of all cults and false religions all use either direct scriptural truth or moral realities from scriptural concepts to bolster a methodology of servitude to given doctrines which lead us to our own demise.
This situation allows for a Christ according to one's own imagination; and effectively robs Him of supernatural saving grace. Plenty of emphasis can be on living according to a sort of moral standard; but as there is no focus on the sin nature and the underlying issue facing all mankind under God's wrath; then no need is seen for a Savior to take God's wrath in our place.
Isaiah 8:12 states Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. The other translations seem to make the point clearer and use the word "conspiracy"; so that we aren't to be obsessed in every conspiracy theory on the internet. Many try to use these things to ignore their own doctrinal error and need for a Savior; and even true believers need to be balanced to get accurate information and not spend an inordinate amount of time looking for dirt in a world whose inhabitants always have something bad we can discover; real or imagined on their profile.
Micah 6:8 states He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
In sharing the scriptural truth in love we must say things that natural man finds offensive to reach lost souls. Our hearts being a reflection or "display" of His Spirit should show love; and humility as we all came from the same cesspool of lies and deception.
We need in today's ecumenical church culture to remain separate from false gods but also to show compassion toward our enemies through His love.
Part 2.
On to Romans 8 but let's pick it up where Paul left off in Romans 7 on in to Romans 8.
Romans 7:24-25. through Romans 8:1-2.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is practical!
This is the doing of Christ Spirit in us.
Paul continues to elaborate on this in ch 8 verses 10-13.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(BUT if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU)
This is not of our own efforts!
I do not really understand what you want to say. So I will write some things hoping that I answer to your post.
Lets talk about grace. Yes salvation is the result of Jesus' sacrifice. This is why it is called grace, and has nothing to do with our works. But we have free will and we may or may not accept His sacrifice. So you see God asks for our cooperation. Without our cooperation nothing can be done. In the opposite case that God wouldn't need our cooperation everybody in the world would be saved, no matter if they accept Christ or not. That cooperation is also essential later on in our christian life.
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. He was in is father's house. He left his father, because that was what he wanted to do. When he was away, was he dead or not? Luke 15:32, "... for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."
So we see that grace doesn't accompany the son when he willingfuly leaves his father's house. Grace stops at the fence of the house and waits for the son to come back. Suppose we don't leave the house and we keep a sin in our lives (say we hate a brother for some reason) for which we never repend for. If we die at the moment that we have never repended for our sin, are we still saved?
It is true that God does not give up on us easily. He will do everything He can do to make us repent even at the very last minute of our life. BUT the final decision to obey Him and repend or not is on us, not on God. We have free will and God will never complel us to obey.
God has given us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. But the Spirit doesn't overcome our free will. It is not an autopilot. It goes as far as we let Him go. He cleans us as much as we want to be cleaned. He is a helper, not a conqueror.
Our names have been written in the Book of Life. No they are not erased as long as we are still alive, no matter if we have gone out of the house. But if we die away, they are immediately erased. ( Rev 3:5) GBU
Your conversations have changed; we used to share our understanding out of respect, without judging, criticizing, or speaking down to each other. I am sorry. Have a safe and good week. No need to reply.
God bless,
RLW
In my previous post I mentioned John's baptism only because it resembles the christian baptism in it being a command of God which everybody has to obey. As the Pharisees disobeyed John thus rejecting the will of God for them similarly a christian who does not want to obey that command rejects the will of God for them. But lets suppose we don't know if that is a matter of salvation or not (hypothetical). Would you personally risk disobeying that command? Are you absolute sure that there would be no consequence in your salvation? Are you willing to bet your eternal life? Woild you teach it to others? Can you take upon you the responsibility of teaching others that baptism is not essential for salvation? And what if it is? What would you say to God that day? So you see it is an extremely serious issue.
What does baptism stand for?
Lets read Rom 6:2-7. Water baptism signifies the end of the old man of sin and the resurrection of the new man of righteouness. It is a landmark. In baptism we bury our old man and a new man rises who lives a holy life. Rom 6:4, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
This step has to be done. You can't just jump it. You can't go on carring the old sinful man on your shoulders in your new life. You have to bury him in the baptist fond. This is what baptism means. The new life begins in baptism, not before, not after. The spiritual baptism (if you mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit) has nothing to do with death and resurrection. It is a gift to us from God to help us obey Him and sanctify ourselves.
This is what I believe. Again thanks for replying.
GBU
Part 1
Great post and it is primarily what we are discussing in this thread.
I would even add the end of Romans 5 on through Romans 6, 7, and 8.
Romans 5:19- 21 reads, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Onto Romans 6:1-4,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE!
This statement is not a task! It's a statement of fact!
If a person have been baptized into Christ death and ressurection he's Identified with Christ and born of God's Spirit!
(Verses 8-11)Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.) This is factual! It's telling us to "RECOGNIZE" ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.
This doesn't mean we're perfect!
It means we're not longer slaves to sin.
Paul uses the analogy of a marriage in Romans 7 describing the flesh and it's infirmities.
See part 2.
Thanks for youre reply. I think we are returning back to our previous discussion.
I personally do not believe in a Kingdom of God for national Israel separetly from the church. I believe that during the 1000 yr period all the saints from both Hebrews and gentiles will reign together with Christ.
Go to Rev 2:26-27. Jesus is speaking to the church of Thyatira, a gentile church. He says "26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."
That church was a church of that time. Even if we condider that those churches represant successive periods of church history, it is obvious that gentiles from all ages will participate in that kingdom. And of course those slaughtered by antichrist from all nations as Rev 20:4 shows.
In our previous discussion you said that the Bride of Christ is Israel. Paul in Ephesians 5:22-33 gives advice to married couples. He resembles the union of the man with his wife as the union of Christ with the church. Lets read some of them.
Verses 31-32, "31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."
To me those verses make it clear that it is the church who is the Bride of Christ, and not Israel. But lets think about it deeper. What was Israel's mission? Israel's mission was to keep the faith in the true God until the Messiah would be born who would save humanity. So the big picture was the whole world, and not a separate nation. Israel's mission ended exactly there and onwards Jesus they should had placed themselves in the church which includes all nations all over the world. Which thing they didn't. But God, because of their fathers, has a plan for them to save them at the end.
see pt 2
Ps 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are two verses that mention this.
Romans 2:13
"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Matthew 5:16
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Blessings
Good to hear this report on how God worked in this situation and that Arthur is now happy and getting care that has led to improvement in his health, outlook on life, and spiritual renewal. Great!
" And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
The days in the covenant carry this expression, "And the evening and the morning were..." Sx times the litany is exhorting those who joined into the Fellowship of God with Man of the day that shall never end. " And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there."(Rev.21.25) This Covenant is our precous faith can take wings as we are sojourners and pilgrims. "Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage."(Ps.119.54) In the cool of the day, God is in our midst and it is our holy communion. We are under the shadow of the most High.(Ps.91.1) For the young Samuel it was the beginning where God took over his upbringing. " And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth./And the Lord said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing "(1 Sam.3.10-11) 'The Spirit with the expression 'As at other times' instructs us how God would have walked with Enoch, Abraham and the Shepherd-king of Israel especially. He preached to the great congregation comprising of the sanctified ones, (Rev.5.11-13) "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands." (5.11) What is their theme? Holy,Holy Holy. Adam and Eve basked in this cool of the day until sin entered. Their shame was in their knowledge. "They were naked"
v.9 "And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?"
Perfect love is the pure language while faith is the pure speech. "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."(Zeph.3.9). Fear is a red flag
Yes, We have always been called to obedience and we have always failed.
We're justified by faith in the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross that cleanses us daily. (There's no if's or but's.)
We will never stop looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Here's where Christ will judge the world but for those who recieved Christ and have been baptised into Christ has already died and their sin has been judged and paid for.
And if any child of God sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
In the old covenant "Ministration of condemnation" Israel during that fleshly outward ministry could never become clean! Hebrews 10:1-11 gives a description of that fruitless temporary economy.
But Christ, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he HATH PERFECTED FOR EVER THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED. Hebrews 10:10-14.
These scriptures can not be ignored.
You're getting Justification confused with sanctification!
We're being sanctified daily.
We've been Justified once!
We're enduring and will endure till the end because we ARE saved!
It's Not the other way around.
Anyway you twist it, you're describing your salvation being on grace that you have to earn.
Outwardly you may feel like you are enduring, how about inwardly?
Are you perfect?
Can you perform perfection? We both know that answer!
God's standard for perfection is not something you do for a little while.
Perfection is to be as Christ is!
You probably wouldn't adhere to that thought much because you deny his deity.
However that's perfection, So if you think it's left up to you to endure to the end with your contributed works you haven't rested on the finish work of Christ.
Blessings
You are dead wrong about equating works with baptism. You write: "I don't believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation for then salvation requires a 'work' to be performed, negating salvation by faith alone." Faith is what frames the world of believers from this world where natural laws apply. Faith is the pure speech (Ps.12.6) "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech." (Gen.11.1) How do we know it for sure? God commanded, "let there be light" and there was light. That is how Gen.1.1 begins. Father-Son relationship holds on the same DNA of faith.
You die to the world so you are making a statement before angels and men and born of water you begin your life in heavenly places even as the Adam Eve were. They were naked as we are still in our ville bodies; glory of God was their covering ; Our faith sets as though we were in the beginning of things. "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life." We walk by faith which entails work, don't you think? Fruits of the Spirit don't fall from heaven.
If looking up to heaven before healing a deaf mute ,-and he sighed, was meaningful to Christ ( Mk 7 .34-35) water baptism is a symbol as looking up. In the healing we have the proof it is valid before God. The word of God is a sound as well as a sign. This sign holds both faith with works as Jesus holds his humanity and Deity as one because the Word is the Law.(Ps.11.89)
When I read about enduring and overcoming, it resonates with me as a call to obedience. Obedience is essential to our walk with God and shows our love for Him. As Giannis said, God's grace is a gift, and our salvation comes from Jesus' sacrifice; we can't do anything to earn it.
Obedience is the foundation of enduring and overcoming the challenges we face in this corrupt world. I agree it is by the blood of the Lamb, Philippians 4:13. Obedience is not a work but an expression of our love for God and the promises He has given us; obedience is on us, Romans 6:16, as Jesus is our guide who was obedient unto death, we are also to be obedient, many in the past has been obedient unto death and many in the future will also. To me, that is the ultimate enduring and overcoming.
I understand some of the verses I listed might fit a time when you and others believe the Church will be taken to heaven and won't be here, but those Scriptures are there for a reason, like Revelation 13:9-10 and Revelation 14:12-13. Those who have genuine faith will endure and overcome the persecution that is coming, even death.
God bless,
RLW
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
Great passages! I want to share my favorite passages from this year, 2025, which I have been meditating on in the mornings. I think my focus while reading is on baptism ( Romans 7 and 8).
Why does it sometimes hurt when we hear something that goes against what we thought, what we learned in religion, or in cultural philosophy, for example? But I'm not concerned with each person's pain; rather, I want to understand and practice solely the truth.
Paul delves deeply into the life of the natural man (for me, the best chapters on psychology, psychoanalysis, and therapy). In some previous posts, I had shared something about the spirit, soul, and body; it was a rough draft, since Paul describes it in ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
In this universe, as far as we know, we have spirit, soul, and body. Animals in general have the body, the biological part, the physical part, and they have a part of personality, they have the part of the soul.
Anyone who thinks animals don't think is mistaken. Animals think, but they think as animals. I have a cat in my life, so I've done several experiments with her. For example, she likes to climb onto people's laps. When I take her off someone's lap, she would not "speak" to me for two days, she was angry for two days because I took her away. So they have it-dogs or cats, cats are fantastic-they have sensitivity, they have everything, but they do not have the spirit.
Paul in Romans 7 writes about a law of the mind, and then about a law that is in the members of the body, which he calls the law of sin and death. And the third one he describes is the law of God. It is very inspiring to read these lives with these laws. Each life acts according to the law of that life: a cat meows, a dog barks, a fish swims. This is a natural principle; it's how He created the universe.
Exactly right. John's baptism was not a man-made ritual borrowed from Jewish tradition but a direct command from God for a specific purpose in His prophetic plan. John 1:33 makes that clear: "He that sent me to baptize with water"-God Himself commissioned John to prepare Israel for their coming Messiah. It was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ( Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3), identifying a believing remnant within the nation who would be ready to receive their King.
But that baptism belonged to Israel's prophetic program, not to what is revealed later through Paul. John's ministry called Israel to repentance and national cleansing before the promised kingdom could be established on earth. It was a shadow of the future when the nation will be washed and restored ( Ezekiel 36:25-27). Yet once Christ's death and resurrection were accomplished, God began a new work-offering salvation to all, Jew and Gentile alike, not through water or outward sign, but by faith alone in the finished work of the cross.
Paul declares that there is now "one baptism" ( Ephesians 4:5), not of water, but by the Spirit into the body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13). This spiritual baptism identifies believers with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection ( Romans 6:3-4). John's commission looked forward to an earthly kingdom; Paul's gospel looks upward to a heavenly calling. Both were from God, but each served its divine purpose in its proper time. I would love to hear your thoughts on the truths laid out before you.
G&P
In the first para:
"Bur sons of Adam from generations to generations has fared word.... As mentioned in an earlier post, the garden of Eden was a microcosm of the word apart from the natural world."
as
"Bur sons of Adam from generations to generations has fared worse..... As mentioned in an earlier post, the garden of Eden was a microcosm of the world apart from the natural world.
and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Adam and Eve knew some things they never had dreamed possible. But having lost their vision which comes from God their problem was to solve it according to the level of knowledge which they could access. An apron of fig leaves was their cover. Recently was the news of a mother in the US, Megan Garcia, filed a lawsuit against the company Character.AI alleging that interactions between her 14-year-old son and an AI chatbot contributed to his suicide. This Character.AI chatbot based on a fictional character from Game of Thrones drove him to believe in a lie. This lie is same as darkness is the absence of light. Truth has suffered not an iota since the kingdom of God is based on 'Thy word is truth'. Bur sons of Adam from generations to generations has fared word. The Law of the Spirit inserted the warning in Gen.1.2 Darkness was upon the face of the deep. What does the term the deep signify? The same as the deep sleep referred to the death of the Son in a far country. Adam and Ever were in a garden framed by the word of God. As mentioned in an earlier post, the garden of Eden was a microcosm of the word apart from the natural world.
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God." (Heb.11.3) Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the tree which God had commanded them not to eat. Without faith what was their DNA? they were under the cover of darkness and it is another reference to the covering cherub who was perfect. " Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ezek.28.15) The same could be applied to Adam and Eve. Without the world of the Spirit the worship of the imposter church is run on carnal wisdom so churches are based on corporate models and protocols. Where are the true worshippers or the fruits of the Spirit?
Yes many people feel uneasy when they hear that they have to be baptized. Maybe because baptism is done publicly and other people see them. Maybe they are shy. I myself also felt uneasy but for another reason. I was baptized as a baby but when I really believed in Christ I was told that I had to be baptized again since baby baptism is not considered valid by my church. And I felt so glad after baptism. It was feeling like I was a bird flying in the skies. Very happy.
Anyway baptism is not a ritual or only a public announcement of our belief in Christ. There is more than that and as GiGi said God wouldn't ask for it if it were something not important. There is always a reason when God does or says something. There are no rituals in New Testament. They were rituals in the Old Testament but they served "as a shadow of things to come". And those "things to come" was Jesus and His sacrifice. No rituals exist in Christianity. Even the Lord's Supper is not a ritual and nothing is sympolic there.
GBU
May God heal you and keep you for His glory. We are all frail human beings but God in His mercies never fails, so in your present need God must work. Oh God heal your servant, Amen
"She took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
Man and woman were one flesh Is it not? But nakedness stamped her body of the ground from which her husband was taken. Meanwhile the rib stamped glory was her covering. Only faith held these two worlds as one. Adam was not beguiled but the woman was. His fault was to disobey a direct command from God. Our love of God must be total.
St Paul asks," Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" He adds, "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."(Rom.8.35-39
Heb.1.6 God's command 'worship ye him' to the angels set the context for worship which is in truth and spirit.(Jn.4.23-24)
Rev.5. 11-13 In the vision of John we have the true worshippers and it is in spirit. In the vision of Isaiah also we see seraphim,"And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory." (Isa.6.3; Job 38.7) This glory was acknowledged by"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" We also have a part when do all things for his glory. "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"(Eph.5.19) our inner man is refreshed by our worship. It is our reasonable service. By sin we see Adam blaming Eve and with such contrariness what worship shall they conduct?
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." Their eyes were opened to their shame and their knowledge of good and evil went only to cover their nakedness. Their eye of faith went shut! "and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"(Rev.3.17)
The same blindness, so many sects making up their own worship.