Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2038

Why the statement of psam 89vs23

Brother Robert,

Interesting.

So you believe if we say three "persons" in ONE is false.

But you say three "manifestations" in ONE is correct.

I really don't see the problem here. When saying three "persons", of the Godhead, it should be known this is of the Spirit of God. Not like three separate human flesh people. They are all ONE.

Although all through the Bible you have Jesus speaking and praying to His Father. The Father from Heaven speaking down unto His Son and Jesus speaking of the Comforter, Spirit of Truth, or Holy Ghost as "Him".

So if you believe that was just God from above talking down to Himself, and Jesus praying and talking to Himself, well that's how you perceive it.

Throughout the NT it seems pretty intertwining of the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost being in you when saved. As they are ONE.

Of coarse God is in everything and knows everything about everyone whether saved or not.

I pray to God our Father and Jesus Christ as they are two. Even though I know they are ONE. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father.

So really Robert I don't see much differentiation in beliefs of the Lord. At least not enough to judge others and tell them they don't understand and are wrong. You say three "manifests" others say three "persons".

May we all come together in the Lord. God Bless.

A description from one of my bible study books from my youth, "The only true God is the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three distinct Persons in one divine Being" I watch Billy Graham on a regular basis, and he explained it in one of his sermons as water; you have liquid, ice, and vapor. three separate forms but one of the same as in H2O. There is God the Father, the Word was made flesh (Jesus) for our salvation through the cross, and the Holy Ghost guides us to the cross (conscience) This I know is hard to understand if at all with our finite minds, but nowhere in the bible does it say that we must understand, but only believe (faith). I've submitted a few verses of scripture to support what I'm trying to say but there are several others throughout the NT starting with Matthew1:18, I hope this helps you

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Do I pray to Jesus or God and must I speak in tongues (Acts) to be born again?

Adam you really are a twister when it comes to scriptures, no debate is worthy , not even in the ball park Adam .

With out the spirit of truth, just about any form of doctrine is possible as you prove .

Thanks Robert for your detailed explanation. I can only deal with one aspect of what you have said & that is on the verses that show the Christ Jesus is now risen & is seated at God's right Hand. I've checked the Greek in each of the cited verses, & they show a physical position of 'sitting' (kathemenos), at the 'right hand' (dexion), & of 'God' (Theos).

You have written: "Explanation = "right hand of God" is an idiomatic expression that means "Power" or "Authority", not location". How have you arrived at this 'explanation', given that the original language specifically states that Jesus' position is 'seated', 'at God's right Hand', & beside 'God', which you state He's no longer there, because Jesus is now God?

An idiom is something quite different: such as "hang one's head (in shame)", or to "kick the bucket", where clearly it is an expression to attract a response, an action. That Christ rose in victory over death & for our justification before God is seen in Romans 4:24,25: "But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." By transliteration: 'To us also, that our faith shall be imputed for righteousness (v 22), if we believe on God Who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, being delivered for our sins & raised that we might be justified by God'.

And then in Hebrews 10:12: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God". The same thought is expressed that Christ rose from the dead by God's Power & took up his rightful place at the Father's right Hand. This can't be an idiomatic expression, as the existence of the Person of God is present, who raised Jesus from the dead, God had to be fully satisfied (Christ was our propitiation for sins) & God could only then justify us - no other event could secure us. God is present & Jesus at His right Hand receiving worship.

Another explanation of the Godhead - One God name Jesus

Another explanation of Jesus as God, Spirit, Word, other titles:

An example, a man: he can be a "husband" to his wife, (did his number change? No), he can be a "father" to his children and at the same time, a "President" of his company and boss of his employees; the man has 3 different titles serving different functions, yet being the same person. So with the Godhead: 3 titles or functions or manifestations but the same one God.

Another example: imagine yourself to possess the power to transform into different creatures. One day you want to swim in the ocean, you changed to a fish. After you become a fish, did your number multiply? No, you simply became a fish. Now, you want to fly in the sky, you changed into a bird. Did your number multiply? Again no. Then you changed into an ox to graze through the grassland. Still your number didn't multiply into two or three beings but changed into the creature you wanted to be. The mystery behind the Godhead is as simple as this. Why do we have to complicate things?

Dear Robert,

I like the format and numbers you used in your comment. I just don't agree with your interpretation.

For instance "2.God the Son - is not found in the Bible," except it absolutely is found in the Bible. Have you read the book of John chapter 1? "The Word was God" is very clear. It's so clear it's hard to debate, it would almost be dishonest to conclude that the Word "was not" God. To me, that's no different than a serpent slithering up to and saying to ignore this verse, that instead it's "not" God. I trust the Bible and it is 100% clear what that means. So, let's say that someone then claims "Well, the Word isn't Jesus though, cause it could still be the Father." Nope. The Bible already answered that in advance too if you look at verse 14. It says He was made flesh and dwelled among us and refers to His "father." That narrows it down so much that there is zero other options than it being Jesus.

Jesus is God and He's different than the Father. Even then if someone denies the book of John there even MORE verses which support the same conclusion. When you then have a mountain of evidence that says the same thing, it starts building a case for a certain understanding of reality. Then for the holy spirit you have verses like Isaiah 61:1 that says the holy spirit is The Spirit of the Lord GOD. So that debunks the claim that the holy spirit "isn't God." A trinity then seems like an appropriate word to explain the relationship. People often get caught up in terminology, like how can one be another but separate at the same time. An apple has parts like skin, inner juicy part, and seeds and each is an Apple, but each has a different role. The Bible is clear in how it describes the relationship. So, denying it just seems like denying an apple. God bless...

Dear Eilot,

I Also don't understand where you get this from in the Bible. The first instance of anyone receiving the Holy Spirit(before Pentacost in Acts 2, which came from a mighty wind) is the risen Jesus at the end of the book of John. When He breathed on His disciples and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

Also Jesus never told His disciples, or anyone, they had to do anything to others for them to receive the Holy Spirit. The Lord reads hearts and knows who is ready to receive the Holy Ghost.

As Chris elaborated about the laying on of hands. Jesus Christ is the only one who gives the Holy Spirit. I understand there may be some people in the world who say they have the Holy Ghost and maybe not. Through experience I knew something happened to me after giving my life to the Lord. As my entire life changed from the inside out. If someone doesn't think I have been blessed with the Holy Ghost that's fine. That does not change the truth. No person laid their hands on me to receive this gift from above.

All praise and glory be to our Father in Heaven through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God Bless you.

Not disagreeing with you on concerning the trinity God has always been eternal and omnipomnipresent all powerful and all knowing and spirit to say that Jesus Christ is spirit and all powerful and everywhere present show me that also gift of holy spirit came on day of Pentecost given to all who choose to believe for first time in history birthday of church also one other point nowhere in the gospels does either the devil or devil spirits call him God they call Him Son of God and if anybody knew who he is it would surely be his arch enemy.

Fred I'm totally convinced that when someone believes Romans 10:9+10 they get delivered.

Hebrews 13:5; John 14:18; 1 Corinthians 7:13. Not sure what aspect of this that you're thinking of.

Are you sure your comment is to me? For me to lighten up??

Ultimately, you certainly did the right thing by leaving off the debt & committing him to the Lord. But was it really a debt that he owed you, or did you gift him the money because of love & concern for his life? Usually, a debt to be paid needs a written declaration, or else it can be construed as a gift with no compulsion to repay. Whatever, I'm sure you have received the greater blessing for your kindness.

I believe you're correct, that current & future technology will play a major role in not just uniting the world (as we see evidence of it now), but also be instrumental in giving the base to a one world government. Man might believe that with his knowledge & expertise in so many fields, that he is the 'saviour' for the world's woes: but the only evidence we see is that constant deterioration in his true spiritual & mental condition that might show him proficient in his works but deficient in his connection to his Maker & Redeemer.

Hello ,can people tell me what they think hell is please ? Who ends up there ? Everyone who has never been baptized ? Hindus ? Babies ? Muslims ? Im very confused and cant actually find out much about it from the actual Bible .Thankyou .

If you could cite some proofs of what you have said, "the only way to receive the holy spirit is from a true minister in God's true church,( the church Jesus started), with submersion and the laying on of hands."

I know that the apostles received the Holy Spirit when the Spirit came upon them on the day of Pentecost ( Acts 2), & the apostles were instrumental in imparting the Spirit through the laying on of hands as the early Church was being formed, but where do we find that subsequent to this apostolic agency, the laying of hands ever imparted the Spirit?

We do have Scriptures as 1 Timothy 4:14 (gift given via the presbytery, which was not the gift of the Spirit) but do we ever see the Holy Spirit being imparted through the agency of men (aside from the establishing of the Church via the apostles)?

If you do believe that the Spirit can only be received from "a true minister in God's True Church", then from where did that minister receive the gift? Should not a full examination be done on him to ensure that he is capable of imparting the Spirit? Of course, we would have to go to every person before that minister to ensure that there was no failure by anyone in receiving the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we would have to go all the way back to the apostles to ensure this fact, thereby making the Church minister qualified to do so.

Or, what features have to be evident before a person becomes a "true minister"? If it's the evidence of the Holy Spirit, then could not somebody (maybe, a nobody) sitting quietly in the pews, also come forward to administer this gift?

I ask these questions simply to query such a statement that you've made. I believe that the laying on of hands by the elders (minister) is not for imparting the Holy Spirit but for identification & confirmation of a believer's position in the Church or being sent out to minister. And that only the apostles had that authority & enabling to do so - no one else.

I understand Rick. However, my reply was to Robert Malit who has made some interesting comments that I seek clarification on. And it's true, that the Doctrine of the Trinity is complex & beyond our human comprehension, as we've never seen or experienced anything like it in our earthly sojourn (apart from applying some weak examples to describe it).

But what we do understand of it that's found in the Word is worthy of discussion, understanding & acceptance. The real question then is: if Jesus isn't an indivisible part of the Godhead (whether pre or post incarnation), does that belief affect our faith in any way, God's acceptance of us & indeed our salvation? If the answer is "No", our deliberations on this doctrine are indeed wasted. But if "Yes", it's important that we believe what Scripture, as written, says about it for our learning & for the basis & truth of our faith. Then 2 John 1:7 becomes a very cutting Word to us, as clearly John speaks of those who don't acknowledge Jesus (as God's Word) has come in the flesh - the same thought he carries through from his Gospel. There are many today, as in those early Church days, who denied the deity of Christ: they certainly believed in an historical Jesus (they saw & heard Him), but to know & believe that this One of God came out of God, is blasphemy to them & reveals a 'different' spirit of utterance.

However, I never pursue this, or any other teaching, with those who would refrain; but if a comment is made, then it is proper that the Scriptures are properly exegeted in support, or else we are just mouthing empty words into the air that may well be the cause of ignorance & diversion from the Truth for many seeking help in the Word. Blessings to you.

Be Quick to Listen (A RECEPTIVE HEART)

[Jam 1:19] Everyone Should Be Quick To Listen

Everyone should be quick to listen-hear now and heed-

Slow to speak, also slow to anger in word and deed.

Anger does not yield a life praised by the Lord,

So get rid of all sin and humbly accept God's Word.

If you listen, but do not practice, you'll go astray,

Like a man who looks in a mirror, then goes away.

You must keep looking; God's Word will set you free.

Don't forget what you've heard, but do it, and blessed you'll be.

If you think you're a model Christian, yet speak too free,

If your tongue has no rein, faith's worthless; you've been deceived.

Here's faith the Father accepts as pure and true:

Help the needy, keep from defilement in all you do.

WHAT DO U THINK OF THIS HYMN?

Continuation

Perspective Helps Us Understand God

Old Testament = God is a Spirit, invisible to the naked eye. Attributes are: Omnipotent - all powerful, can do anything nothing is impossible; omnipresent - is everywhere; omniscient - knows everything and anything; unchanging - never change, time and space doesn't affect him; eternal - everlasting, has no beginning nor ending;

Time Perspective:

Old Testament

Adam to Noah = 1,656 years

Adam to Joseph = 2,513 years

Adam to King Solomon = 4,008 years

Explanation = "right hand of God" is an idiomatic expression that means "Power" or "Authority", not location

Another explanation: for Trinity 3 persons in 1 God: (only 1/3 true; 2/3 false)

1.God the Father - is found in the Bible,

2.God the Son - is not found in the Bible,

3.God the Holy Spirit - is not found in the Bible.

In the Old Testament, the name of God was kept secret. But, Prophet Isaiah prophesied the #2 manifestation of God, and this was fulfilled when a virgin conceived by the Holy Ghost - a child born name Jesus - to saved the people of God.

God has manifested himself 3 times in 3 different time frames, not 3 persons.

Explanation for God the Father: #1 manifestation = God a Spirit in Old Testament, #2 manifestation = humbled himself in the flesh as a man name Jesus - suffered, shed blood for remission of sins of man; died, buried, risen, #3 manifestation = ascended into heaven sent Holy Spirit down to indwell in our hearts.

Hi Cris, here is my reply

Answer to your questions, back up with biblical proofs:

Colossians 1:16 - 17 16For by him (JESUS) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him (JESUS), and for him (JESUS): 17And he (JESUS) is before all things, and by him (JESUS) all things consist.

1 John 1:3 Context 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (JESUS); 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:19 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke 22:69 68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. 69Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

Acts 7:56 56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Romans 8:34 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Hebrews 10:12 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

1 Peter 3:22 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Perspective Helps Us Understand God

Old Testament = God is a Spirit, invisible to the naked eye. Attributes are: Omnipotent - all powerful, can do anything nothing is impossible; omnipresent - is everywhere;

Sir I fully understand what you are saying yes depending on whos reading it punctuation changes themeaning as do center references and chapters, I in no way shape or reasoning or idea am I trying to get someone to believe my personal belief system. The apostle Paul who was given the revelation for the church and how it is supposed to function and operate and to this day there are individuals who argue water baptism or holy spirit or both, is speaking in tongues right or wrong, the apostle paul went up against the same thing and no I'm not advocating I'm as spiritual as he give me a break but it says in the timothy epistles that all of asia turn away from him and followed other doctrines and that was only about 70 years after pentecost so if you choose to believe that what we have in translation is word for word what these men were given by God thats fine with me your choice. By the way an example of poor translation which doesn't fit, on the cross Jesus Christ said the words eli eli lama sabbachthani that is to say my Gog my God why has thou forsaken me. Now since Jesus Christ always did the will of his father and told his disciples my father is always with me and his purpose was to buy us back by giving himself I.E. sinless blood you can't seperate that now we look look up those words back in old testament actual translation is my God my God for this purpose was I kept or spared you tell me what makes more sense. Again I've met people who were shown this and won't teach it because most people won't believe it and thats there privilege.

No. I'm not saying he was wrong. I'm saying given the archaic english, our understanding of the passage is wrong. When he said no one knows except the father, he was saying that he couldn't say because his father would say not that he didn't know.

Did God raise Jesus or did Jesus raise himself. The answer to this we find in John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Now the nature of the Godhead. That is a mystery. One we shall have to wait and see to find out. The very fact we have a triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost 1John 5:7 ) defies the laws of nature that we perceive. God's characteristics Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient also defy our laws of nature.

As for the Council of Nicaea, this council was held to address the heresy that had entered the church saying that said Christ wasn't divine. Not to establish a new doctrine. There by confirming the Biblical Trinity.

Modern day Iraq is not populated everywhere in fact many parts are entirely desert. Ancient Babylon sits about 50 miles south of Bagdad and it's desolate. Many years ago Saddam Hossain claimed to have Babylonian ancestry and tried to rebuild and then desert Storm happened. You can read about it online. There have been several attempts to rebuild but never again has it been inhabited... so the prophecy was in fact fulfilled. To this day it lays waste and nothing but animals dwell there.

Ron, Thank you for this reference.

Brandon, i hope this helps you have faith in Jesus as "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" and, therefore, part of the Godhead.

Good call mild Bill from rick

So sorry for typo...

Verse 4 John chapter 1

4 ) In him was life, and that *life* was the light of men.

Oh please... Read the gospel of John.

The Bible is the true inerrant Word of God. It says in John 1:

1 ) In the begginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 ) He was with God in the beginning.

3 ) Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4 ) In him was life, and that light was the light of men.

5 ) The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

God is a triune being:

Father

Son

Holy Spirit

Three persons but One God.

Jesus the Son spoke the universe into existence. Jesus is the Word. Jesus has many names. God has many names.

We must be careful to not lead people astray. We should only comment on God and the Bible by using scripture to support our beliefs.

With love and prayers,

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