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In Daniel 9:1, we read:
'In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the line of the Medes, he was made king over all the Chaldean people.'
In Daniel 5, mighty Babylon - until then dominated by the Chaldeans - falls during the reign of Belshazzar, Nebuchadnezzar's grandson. In the midst of an unholy feast, a supernatural hand writes on the wall ( Daniel 5:5 and 5:25-28)
That same night, Belshazzar is killed, and the empire passes to the Medes and Persians ( Daniel 5:30-31).
That's when Darius the Mede comes on the scene. During his short reign (around 538-536 BC), Darius appoints Daniel as one of the three main administrators of the kingdom ( Daniel 6:1-3). But this provokes jealousy among the other leaders.
'O king, sign a decree forbidding anyone to pray to any god or man but to you for 30 days.' ( Daniel 6:6-7) Darius, flattered, signs it. ( Daniel 6:9)
But Daniel continues to pray. ( Daniel 6:10) And then, 'He was thrown into the den of lions' ( Daniel 6:16).
Darius repents bitterly, but he can't go back on his own law. He spends the night fasting and goes early to the den.
"Daniel, servant of the living God! Could your God, whom you serve continually, have delivered you from the lions?" ( Daniel 6:20).
Darius then writes a historic decree ( Daniel 6:26): "I make a decree that in all the dominion of my kingdom men shall tremble and fear before the God of Daniel."
Good is good, all the time!
I to say Titus was not a Emperor of good!
My focus is what's behind Titus Empire. "The Prince mentioned in Daniel 9:26 and in Daniel 8
"Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, FOUR KINGDOMS SHALL STAND UP OUT OF THE NATION, BUT NOT IN HIS POWER.
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, AND BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Daniel 8:22-25..
Gabriel tells Daniel "and by peace shall destroy many: Titus didn't do that!
This is the Prince of the people that shall come. The Antichrist.
It's been a pleasure Brother Carleton.
It's getting late, I'm off to bed.
God bless you.
(Part 4):
I agree that when Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19. This army is the church, that is my understanding as I have mentioned.
In Matthew Chapter 24:31, it says He (Jesus) is going to gather them together, His elect, (this would be the Jews), from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west. The prophecy is found in Isaiah Chapter 27 Verses 12 and 13.
Brother, you say that you do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
They are there to be found. I myself have not seen any verses that specifically mention the church going through the tribulation period that we see in Revelation. There is no mention of the church after Chapter 3 until the second coming of Christ when we (the church) come with Him.
You mentioned something that causes me to ask the question that if Jesus became the Messiah at His baptism and anointing of the Holy Spirit, who was He before that?
Christ is the translation of the Greek word that is the same as the Hebrew word for Messiah, MESHIACH, and it means the anointing. The Jews believed that when Messiah came, He would be the anointing of God in human form.
The Jews already believed in a Messiah long before Jesus came. Who was this Messiah that they believed in? If you say that they believed God was their Messiah (which is true), and you say that Jesus became the Messiah, wouldn't this make Jesus God?
Well brother, I've written more than I intended to. It almost seems like a debate. Again, I know you stand firm in your belief on this topic, as do I. This has been a good discussion, and again, I do thank you for sharing your understanding.
Blessings to you in Christ our Savior!
(Part 3):
To your second question, "If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?"
As you know, I do not agree that Daniel 9:24-27 has been fulfilled. If this prophecy has already been fulfilled, that means that transgression is finished which would mean that man's rebellion against God has come to an end. It also would mean that an end of sins has been made meaning there is no more sin in this world. This would also mean that everlasting righteousness has been brought in. It is hard to believe that everlasting righteousness is in this world with all the sin which still remains.
Plus, if this prophecy in Daniel Chapter 9 has already been fulfilled, then the rapture has already happened, the 7-year covenant with the Jews has already been made and broken at the halfway mark. If this was Christ making this covenant, would He break His own covenant?
You bring up Romans 14:12 and how each one of us is accountable. Brother, I couldn't agree with you more on that. However, I can't see how that fits into this conversation. We will all stand before God one day and give an account. Is God going to judge us and hold us accountable for believing in a rapture? I doubt that God is going to hold anyone accountable for believing or not believing in a rapture.
We both agree that there will be two resurrections. We just don't agree on what they are. My belief is that the dead in Christ will be resurrected along with believers who are still alive when Christ comes for His church. This is what I along with many others see as the rapture. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection takes place after the millennial reign of Christ. That will be a resurrection for those who have rejected Jesus Christ.
(Part 2):
To answer your questions, the first one being, "The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture?"
My answer would be yes. First of all, the phrase "shall be caught up" is translated from the Greek word HARPADZO, which means to be caught up, to be snatched up by force, to be seized. The Latin translation of the same Greek word is RAPTUS, which is where the word rapture comes from. So, whether we call it the rapture, or the HARPADZO, or caught up, it is all talking about the same thing.
HARPAGESOMETHA.
This "caught up" is when the dead in Christ are risen first, and then the living believers (church) together meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Jesus. At Jesus' second coming, He comes all the way down to the ground and the church comes with Him. Now, when we go to Revelation 19:8, we see that we are with Christ in heaven and we are clothed in white, fine linen. This is taking place in heaven before the second coming of Christ.
A few verses later in Revelation 19:14, it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." The armies will be us, the church. We come back with Christ at His second coming.
In Revelation 3:10, Jesus says, "Because you kept the Word of My endurance, I also will keep you from out of the hour of the trial, the one being about to come upon the whole inhabited world in order to try the ones dwelling upon the earth." This also fits perfectly with Daniel 12:1.
This is Jesus' promise to His people who are faithful. He has promised that they will not go through the tribulation and trial that is to come upon the whole earth.
(Part 1):
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Yes, as you said, this subject has been discussed before. You and I have given our view on this topic with each other. When we continue going back and forth, unable to agree with each other, I'm not sure what else to call it other than a debate. I suppose we can just stick with friendly discussion which all of our discussions in the past have been.
I have read through both parts of what you sent and I'm sure this will come as no shock, but we are still in disagreement. I would like to just respond to a few things, especially the things with question marks. First, I would like to say that I do not feel like I have been deceived into believing that Jesus is coming to rapture His church. No man has deceived me into this belief. It comes from studying His word.
You bring up Matthew 24:4 where Jesus said, "Take heed that no man misleads you," but this does not fit our conversation because I don't think Jesus was warning them not to be misled about a rapture because it talks about false Christ's and false prophets that are going to come and deceive people. I would find it odd that these false prophets would be trying to mislead people into believing in a rapture.
You desire "the better" as Mary did at Jesus' feet when Martha was busy with preparing the meal and getting everything ready for their guests.
I will pray for your requests for a stronger, more devoted walk with our Lord.
Caring for your mom who is 98! That is a long time to live. And having dementia adds even more challenge. I will pray for you and her and that your siblings will participate more and more as your mom needs more care and you need relief from caring for her and also with some of the things you are unable to do all by yourself.
I pray for healing for your body, that God will strengthen and restore you to health.
Hi Brother Carleton.
I Guess you can call Titus a Prince in the human sense but so is Prince Charles.
Yes, he was Roman Emperor Titus.
But he was operating in a Dominion ruled by Satan.
Ephesians 2:2 describes Satan as the "prince of the power of the air," emphasizing his influence on the world's affairs and influence.
Also see John 14:30.
But throughout scripture these human vessels God often used them to carry out tasks whether to Chastening Israel or even to preserve them as a nation.
You see that with Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel.
Also See Isaiah 44:28 on through Isaiah 45:1-7.
God called these Gentile kings his servants.
Titus also was carrying out a judgment pronounced by the Lord! Luke 19:41-44.
These are human vessels, "flesh and blood" but we wrestle with what's behind them.
There is no need for Gabriel the arch Angel for these kings of the world but he stands for Israel against the source and influence behind these kingdoms.
Daniel 10:13.
Daniel 10:21.
Daniel 12:1.
God bless."
Hope the day is going well your way!
One can profit from a discussion when it's approached with an open mind, and when there is disagreement pride must be set aside and studying scriptures should come into play using proper hermeneutics.
That's essential!
Blessings.
I remember that discussion between you and one other.
I concur with you!
God bless you.
Part 1
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
See part 2
Titus was the Roman General that sieged and defeated Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple.
The Prince in Daniel 9:26 is the Demonic force behind the Romans Empire, just as Cyrus the Great or Cyrus II of Persia was credited for liberating the Jewish people from Babylonian captivity and the Demonic force and Prince behind that Empire is noted in Daniel 10:13 and Daniel 10:20.
Next we have Alexander the Great who conquered Persia.
We see mention the Demonic force/Prince over that Empire also in Daniel 10:20.
Satan is behind these Gentile Empires. This is why the Church is "called out" of the world.
This Dominion was taken away from Adam.
This Dominion is taken back in Revelation, this is why you see the title deeds exchange in Revelation 5.
A seven-sealed scroll that
written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
symbolizes ownership and authority over the planet.
Blessings!
Part 2
Daniel 9, there are 69 weeks from the commandment unto the Messiah. I understand this is when Jesus was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit, becoming the Messiah. In verse 26, Jesus's ministry was 3.5 years when Jesus was cut off/crucified, this would be 69.5 weeks. It is the people/army of the prince that will come and destroy, not the prince. We see a parable relating to this very thing, Matthew 22:1-7.
In verse 27, Jesus is the one who came to confirm the new covenant to the house of Israel, Jeremiah 31:31-34. His ministry was 3.5 years, which is in the middle of the 70th week when He was cut off. Jesus, through His apostles, confirmed the covenant to the house of Israel for the remaining 3.5 years until the death of Stephen, Acts 7:54-60. The confirming of the covenant to the house of Israel ended, and the gospel was then given to the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 13:20.
It is not a beast that makes it desolate, we see in Matthew 23 Jesus was addressing the leaders of the Jewish nation, He was retorting to their rejection of His saving work on their behalf. They refused His call for repentance, because of their overspreading of abominations, Jesus said, "Behold your house is left unto you desolate".
This refers to the coming judgment on Jerusalem and the temple for their rejection of Jesus and the saving work of God. "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured out on the desolate". What Jesus said your house is left unto you desolate, the consummation, the complete destruction poured out on the desolate in 70 AD.
Thank you, brother.
God bless,
RLW
"John Nelson Darby intentionally shaped (by tireless preaching, writing and publishing, repeated church splits, shunning, and excommunication, personal relationships and communication) the Exclusive Brethren, a small movement in one province in Ireland, splitting it off from the Open Brethren as his own ecclesiastical fiefdom. He ruled it with an iron fist, believing that no doctrine or practice other than his own, was correct." With the devil driving him and creating division wherever he went he found the New Canaan his school of catechism.What is the point of casting pearls to them? If some get hot under the collar when confronted with it, we need look past who is driving them.
They are fighting within the firmament, corners of whch, are under the watch of four angels. So kings of the east,west north south are fighting God in vain.
Besides firmament is a sign for Jesus Christ for his saints to grow from glory to glory. "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."(Rev.20.9) What is the significance of the beloved city? It is the temple of God and the camp of 144,000. It is in heaven! The two bands of His sanctified ones, both tagged by 144 are safe and secure. How come we still have controversy over Gog and Magog? What has literal Jerusalem to do with the King of saints and Jerusalem of the great King?" neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King."(Mt.5.35)
Heresies owe to the literalism and they refuse to see through eye of faith. "For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light." Without this minimum requirement no discussion about rapture of any other topic is possible. They are still bound and marked by the son of perdition who thinks merely dropping some bunker buster bombs over Iran shall make israel prosper!
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth," Notice the four corners of the earth? Here is another verse to make sense of the end times after the '144000' are sealed.
Here we have Satan on the loose."And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."(Rev.20.6). Just as God has set four angels standing on the earth we have the nations apportioned to four corners so angel over one shall strive 21 days. " But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."(Dan.10.13)
Michael fighting 'And there was war in heaven' was on a spiritual space organized by the Spirit as he does with time. The varions of time is based on the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. Heaven in this case, also 'framed by the word of God is shown as a sea of glass. What we have examined in St John's vision (15.2) the Spirit shows from the POV of the earth."And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above."(Ezek.1.22-28)
Here we have the POV from heaven. It is about the nations. "All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity."(Isa.40.17) God defines their corners, "that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:/That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity."(40.22-23)
How does God sees the final battle? Or of Satan who leads "the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle'? They are fighting within the firmament, corners of whch
Mark 11:26 (KJV)
this mean for all of us to let go of strong grudge's against people or god won't forgive you
reminder it ok to have grudges but you need to let go of that forgiveness's are very important to me and to you
That is an interesting thought as history tells us that in 70 A.D. Titus the Roman General came into Jerusalem on the final siege and he defeats Jerusalem and destroys the Temple.
Great to hear from you brother. It's been a while and I trust you are doing well.
God Bless!!!
" For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy."
Here we have the core value of the Bible and this God document is holy. In the will of the Father the emblem of the slain covers every man that comes into the world. He is "the true Light,which lighteth every man that cometh into the world./ He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not./He came unto his own, and his own received him not./ But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." ( Jn 1.9-12)
The world framed by the will of God separates that those who received the light and those who did not, From those who received the light He has discarded those who did not gather with His son. These and those who preferred darkness have one thing in common. They bear the mark of the beast in their right hand and in their foreheads. This is determined by the everlasting Covenant set in seven days. They refused in enter into the day Seven sanctified by the God.(Gen.2.1-3) They bear the mark in their body,soul and spirit."And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." This is evident in the manner the false prophets egg the nation to obliterate Iran despite of their past follies. Who are they? "and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Remember the neocon 'chicken hawks' going all out against 'the beast in 2003? Now the same beast and the same false prophets. On Sundays preach from pulpit like a lamb but the cursed goats with two horns.
God set memorials on mount Sion his sanctified ones. Who are standing on the sea of glass mingled with fire are, " These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."(Rev.7.14)
To be a true BORN child of God qualifies us to " run the race" and ALL true born children of God are called to that " high calling" .
But we are not automatically in the Bride by being BORN .
The Lord will first come " to the air " FOR His bride who will meet Him in the air .
Once she has gone from the earth all restraints on the spirit of antichrist is gone as well and we have the unfolding of thec" great tribulation" and the "5 foolish" brethren who were not ready and were barred from " the marriage" with the words " I know you not" . Will be tried in the fire of the great tribulation and face martyrdom .
The unsaved are barred eventually from the Kingdom with the words " I never knew you".
To be BORN again is to get out of Egypt ( the world ) and from the dominion of Pharaoh ( Satan) .
By the blood of a lamb by the Word of God ( to Abraham) and by the Power of God ( judgement on Egypt)in a day .
But we are not only saved from . The penalty of sin ,the power of sin and finally from the presence of sin .
But we are also saved TO.
The wilderness was simply what could be called boot camp . Where civilians are turned into soldiers . Where they learn to obey orders and understand " man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God".
But somehow we have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years the Christian norm!
Where Jordan is death and the promised land heaven .
This cannot be fir there are no giants in heaven or cities to conquer there are no Jericho's .
But what do the scriptures say ? The Bride will come out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners leaning upon her beloved" .
Little children says 1 John . But it also says " young men" but jt goes on " ye fathers" .
We have so concentrated on being BORN again we have forgotten we are meant to grow into maturity .and eat meat!
Holy, sanctified etc
Rev.7. 4-8. Compare this throng "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"(7.19-10) with another mentioned in Rev.5.11-13 " And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;//Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing./And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." This is the Song of the Lamb and we have the song of Moses in Exod.15.1-11
"And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints."
The 144,000 who are standing on the sea of glass mingled with fire have a song which and it is new song same as the one first fruits unto the Lord sing. This song has two parts, the song of Mose and song of the Lamb which is however means the same thing. These martyrs are sealed from those two groups of the left behind church The first group,"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."(Rev.12.9) and the second group,"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child./And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(12.13-14)
The wrath of the Lamb breaks out in the enemy camp to which the leftout church belongs. This is indicated in the vision of Daniel, "they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."(Dan.7.14) The time mentioned in the quote refers to them. The conjunction 'And' between seasons and time according to the Vision refers to the man child being caught up to the throne.(12.5) The left behind church redeems themselves by stepping into the breach made by the Jews cast out of the Covenant. "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."(12.11) This is what the Spirit informs us in Rev.7. 4-8.
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."
Compare it with this verse,"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." The sea of glass in the vision is like unto crystal which force us to seek where the Spirit has mentioned the original sea of glass. Our heart serves as natural glass so we all are confronted with it. There is no excuse. St Paul refers to it."for God hath shewed it unto them."(Rom.1.19-20)How do we make sense of the glorybof God or arrive at the knowledge without it? "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor.3.18;4.6) Without our heart as a glass how shall Ps.19.1 serve the divine Will. Heaven declare the handiwork of God. Jesus Christ as true and faithful witness reveals to us so we say Amen. Thus the sea of glass is Person specific. Having said this, we have the sea of glass mingled with fire. It simply states the wrath of God narrated in Ch.16 is about Christ Jesus surrounded by martyrs. 144000 standing are the sanctified ones."And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb./Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." (Rev.7.13-17) There are two congregation on mount Sion and on sea of glass mingled with fire, both tagged by 144.
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever./ And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
The 24 elders and four beasts are as one because they represent the body of saints of the world made to appear so this world is framed by the world of God and here faith is the one language. (Heb.11.3) The saints redeemed from among men indicates the natural world and nominal Christians are' the heathen' mentioned in Psa. 2.1. They have their 'kings and their MAGA agendas but just the same they are enemies to Christ as their BBB is to persecute His children. So where do their prayers go tto. It explains why God has kept them as memorial before the throne and on mount Sion.
"The four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." These elders and the beasts are the joint custodians of our prayers. The Golden vials full of our prayers explain they represent the twin aspects of our profession. They substitute for Melchizedek, the High Priest of our profession. Chapters 15-16 therefore is narrated from their POV thus we are looking heaven as the temple whereas Ch.5 set the proceedings from the throne.
"And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever." These seven angels explains the wrath of God covering the list of martyrs from Abel to the point of time the two witnesses ascends to heaven ."And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them/ And the same hour was there a great earthquake,"(Rev.11.12-13) This earthquake marks the wrath of God taking effect and what seven angel signify what was in the will of God.
Secondly, I remember a few years ago on KJBO, I was in discussion with someone on this matter in Daniel chapter 9. I believe we were in agreement with Daniel 9:26 concerning "the prince of the people that shall come" that this was the anti-Christ referred to and not Jesus (even as bro. Jesse also highlighted the use of the upper & lower cases of 'P' for prince). But when we get to verse 27, my correspondent was adamant that the "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" was Jesus. I believe he understood the grammatical position of "he" being applied to Messiah rather than to the anti-Christ of verse 26. Whereas, the accepted rule of interpretation and when noting the text for the nearest antecedent of the pronoun "he", this most closely parallels 'the prince that shall come" (i.e. not the Messiah but the anti-Christ).
But then the question, 'if we are to remain faithful to the understanding of 'week' being 'week of sevens', i.e. one week equal to seven years, then when did Jesus "confirm the covenant (or what covenant?) with many for seven years'? Or, when did He "cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" etc, at the mid-way point (i.e. at three & one half years)? It could be understood that after Jesus died & rose from the grave in victory, that indeed the need & validity of the sacrificial system was over & done with. And of course, there was never an "overspreading of abominations" by Him either. This could only apply to the devil presenting himself in the anti-Christ at his enthronement in the Temple & the covenant of peace with Israel that he instituted which he would later break ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4). Just my thoughts on this. Blessings.
What is a study and what is discussion? I willl stick to lliteral as you seem to prefer it Regards to your first line:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."(2 Tim.2.15) and on discussions "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."( Titus 3.9)
Discussion cannot yield anything worthwhile where minds are not open. Mull over it and make your Bill tell you what is profitable for life eternal. GBU
Rest well!