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Yes, brother, we are no different from those who came before us. Nowhere in Revelation does it say we will be taken out. Revelation is clear: anyone who will not take the mark will be killed. Revelation 13:9 If any man hath an ear, let him hear. "Here is the patience and the faith of the saints". The faithful are still here, and many will be beheaded and killed. We are to endure to the end, even if we face death.
I hope this is enough; this could be a long discussion. I know you are working on this, and I do not want to slow it down. I hope you don't mind if I reply, this is most important for the truth.
God bless,
RLW
Revelation 9:5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
It says, and to them it was given. So, it's still limitations and direction from God. And it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: It is interesting that 5 months is the lifespan of a locust, from May through September.
They should not kill them, but they should torment them for five months. And their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he strikes a man. So, this is a locust striking a man like a scorpion. Some might say this is kind of harsh. Why not just have the locusts kill them? Why torment them? It's almost like God is playing games and wants to really cause pain for people.
But look at Verse 6:
Revelation 9:6 - And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
They can't die. They can't kill themselves. So, for five months they are tormented. It sounds pretty intense!
Revelation 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
This verse gives us the description of these locusts. And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle. So, we don't have regular locusts here. And on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Revelation 9:8 - And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
And they had hair as the hair of women. Joel also saw these very creatures ( Joel 1:2-12). And their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Revelation 9:2 - And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke from out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
And I alerted you already to these little words "as," and "like." Remember, John is giving us what is familiar with the human, in symbolic language what he's looking at in the spirit realm. Notice it says the smoke came out "as" of a great furnace. He didn't see a furnace. But this smoke coming up from out of the abyss reminded him of the smoke coming out of a furnace.
And the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. The people in L.A. rejoiced several years ago when they said that for the first time in many years, the smog situation in L.A. is better air than it's been in years. Well, I got news for them. Smoke is coming!
And the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke from out of the pit. So, you can no longer see the entrance anymore. All you can see is smoke billowing out of this pit.
Revelation 9:4 - And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
And it was commanded them (these locusts), that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; And that is their natural food. So, these are not normal locusts. Don't eat the grass, or the vegetation, or the trees, but hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
So, it's interesting that these are demonic forces, and even they are limited. They can't touch the 144,000 who are sealed here upon the earth, but only the people that do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Revelation 9:1 Continued
So here is this star who had fallen from his position from heaven. And it is interesting that in Luke Chapter 10, when the Lord sent out His disciples and gave them authority over demons, and the ability to heal, and for people to be saved and freed from Satan, that when the disciples came back, they rejoiced over the fact that the demons were subject to them.
And it's just like what people do today, "Boy, the power of the Holy Spirit really got Satan down today!" But Jesus said don't rejoice over that but rejoice over the fact that your names are written in heaven, salvation!
But he says I saw Satan falling like lightning out of heaven. So, what he saw in the spirit realm was the spiritual victory that these disciples had over Satan in freeing these people from Satan. So, this is a star which had fallen already unto the earth, already here! And at this time, he's given the key to the abyss. Abyss just means bottomless pit. It is a long shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth with no bottom, at least from the viewpoint of the earth.
Revelation 9:1 Continued
Now when we get to Revelation Chapter 12, we will see that Satan still has access to the throne of God. But he is not omnipresent. He is before the throne of God, and Revelation Chapter 12 is going to tell us that he accuses the brethren day and night before the throne of God.
And you can see what actually takes place between him and God before the throne in Job Chapters 1 and 2. Satan came and accused Job to God and said let me at him. Satan was trying to show that Job really didn't love God, except for the fact that God blessed him with material things. So, God gave him permission to touch his possessions. In fact, his family, his animals, his land, and then after Job passed that test, Satan asked permission to touch his health. And he lost his health in all of that. But God said you can't touch his soul.
So, it is interesting that Satan can get permission to touch anything about a person's life, except for their soul. It could be the physical body. It could be health. It could be circumstances. It could be possessions, or family members.
And so, Satan lost his position in Isaiah Chapter 14. His final downcast to the earth won't happen until Revelation Chapter 12, when he will be cut off and given no more access to the throne of God to accuse
Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Now when the fifth angel sounded, a star fell. Number 1, in Revelation Chapter 1, we know that the stars represent angels. A star fell from heaven! Secondly, the word fall is in the Perfect Tense. So, he sees a star which has already fallen. He didn't see it as it was falling. He saw a fallen star, a star that had already fallen from out of heaven unto the earth.
And to this angel (this fallen star), was given the key to the bottomless pit. Notice that it was given to him. He did not possess it. He did not have authority over it. We know in Revelation Chapter 1 that Jesus has the keys of Hades and of death. The Lord holds all the keys to all of these places.
Now the bottomless pit is the word abyss, ABUSSO in Greek. And it is interesting because it is believed that around where Babylon used to be, and in fact, it was the place where Saddam Hussein was caught, but they believed that there is a shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth. And this shaft is closed up on the top.
And this would be the place that Peter told us about in 2 Peter 2:4, that there are angels who are reserved in chains of darkness, ready to be revealed. And so, this star who had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit. And we will see that this star is none other than Satan himself, and that the creatures that will be released from this pit are going to be two-hundred million demons unleashed upon the earth.
But concerning this star who had been fallen, back in Isaiah 14:12-15, we have recorded for us the rebellion of Satan. It is called the "five I wills," where Satan said I will be like the most high, where he expressed his rebellion towards God. And it is at that time that he lost his first domain. He lost his first position with God.
Nice to hear from you, and your post is very interesting. You have some very good points to consider, including the question of shouldn't one believe that it is close to the return of Jesus? I believe we are getting close to the Lord's return. I find that the closer our relationship is with the Lord, the more we want for Him to come soon. Like you, I have also been in conversations with others about the Lord's return. Some believers say that He will return, but not in our lifetime, or not for a very long time. This makes me wonder if they truly Love the Lord or do they love the world more.
Anyway, may the Lord continue to bless you also!
Big difference indeed! And if I may, I would encourage you also to learn the same!
I understood what you meant when you said that the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are two distinct events. I understand that that is your belief. What I was not sure of was your question asking, "Why would the last of the Church be spared what all those in Christ from the beginning of the Church have not been spared?" The believers at the beginning of the church were tortured in the most gruesome ways imaginable. Even after suffering and surviving the torture, many were burnt alive. If I am understanding you correctly, it looks as though you feel that we as the church today should have to suffer the same things that the early church suffered.
Thank you for the response.
God Bless!!!
isaiah 9:6 jesus is god!
" Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured." Leah delivered four sons. And we have their character delineated by the blessings of Jacob on his death bed.
Reuben, the first born, "Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:' but how did he turn out in the end? " we have the answer in the v.4. "Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch."(49.4)
"Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations." How shall Aaron keep his holy office when he presided over the golden calf under the very nose of the Lord God (9v.5) Remember who revealed this to him? God himself. He stood above the ladder and showed the body of Christ. These are 144,000 standing on mount Sion. The other also 144,000 whom the 24 elders introduce to St John. "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."(Rev.7.14). So Jacob predicts the dispersion of the two tribes. "Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel." Cursed are they. (49.7)
Compare: "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek./The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath./ He shall judge among the heathen" (Ps.110. 4-6) What we have in a nutshell of the church where Leah represents the church having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. So she is buried in the family burial place while Rachel is buried and the pillar ties to Christ the head."And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day."Note the expression 'unto this day'? The pillar connects Bethel to the new Jerusalem.
Brother, you didn't misunderstand. As I mentioned, the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are two distinct events. I know you are busy; we can talk about it later.
God bless,
RLW
"Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."
Matthew 15:11
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
James 1:26
"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain."
Blessings
"And Laban said, It is better that I give her to thee, than that I should give her to another man: abide with me./ And Jacob served seven years for Rachel;"
The House of Laban is the microcosm of the world, and for the heir of promise it is the house of 'my pilgrimage' (Ps.119.54) the Spirit sets Rachel as a song which resonates with the Song of Solomon. Rachel signifies the Bride of Christ. In terms of Jacob and Rachel we shall study the significance of Laban's words, 'Abide with me." Jacob had already stayed funder his roof or a month. "And he abode with him the space of a month."(v.14) With a slippery fellow like Laban the god of this world provides as several instances of sons of perdition. The beast in the Vision of St John 'and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(Rev.13.5) Is this relevant here? What does 42 mean then?.
"Thus have I been twenty years in thy house; I served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy cattle."(31.41) Jacob served Laban 14 years for his brides. So 14x3= 42 gives us the number. This same number we have in the generation of Jesus Christ."So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."(Mt.1.17) The Spirit sets the relationship of Christ and his bride motif in the house of Labann so it is set as a guard rail in instruct us in what sense it is to be understood. Jacob as a steward is set in terms of the Son and under the everlasting Covenant. Thus 'and six years for thy cattle' ties up with Gen. 1.28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it..." So entering into the rest of God on day Seven is apt. What does Peniel means? "for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (32.30)
Stay blessed and love u in Christ. Matthew 21
It is important to read God's Word. Because there is all sorts of talk and chatter about all sorts of things that create confusion among us. But if we stick to the Word, all that is wrong will fall apart and we who read in God's Word will understand what is right and proper. The NT is our learning path.
OT can we learn about what not to do against the Lord, and warfare that is in our real world is in the Spiritual. And about praise and joy in the Lord. May God bless you in Jesus name, Amen Matthew 21
"It says right in the text that the 144,000 are from out of the tribes of the children, or sons of Israel. These are Jews, all 144,000 of them."
This opening of the seals is setting forth the entire will of God in terms of seven, the whole number. There are no additions or deletions. The text you cite is an interlude between sixth and the final seal. Before I move on to the specific let me give the seals as with trumpets and the vials are from the POV of the Son, of the Word and of the Word become flesh.
POV of the Son began with the Lamb who is prevailed upon to break open all the seven. This narrative ends with the robes of the martyrs made by the blood of the Lamb in Ch.7 (v.14). in v.17 we have "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." In the entire episode it is the Will where the elders and the four beasts representing the body only figure. (Heb.10-5-7) God sent his Son and was rejected by the nation of Israel. Consequently it is the 'only begotten Son' (Representing the throne of God and of the Lamb) to whom all judgment is given, and he determines the ones included in 144,000. In Jn 8 we have the parentage of the Jews, (' He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.'vv.44-47)
'It says right in the text' but you are looking elsewhere, Jesse. Learn to rightly divide the word of truth and not truth. There is a big difference.
My first spiritual experience with John on Patmos was the comparison I could see in chapter Rev 13:15 where the beast could make the beast's "image speak" and in today's television and more recently the internet. (Just imagine what spirituality we could have experienced with Jesus instead of watching TV and internet phones all in one)? Well, yes, we live in 2025, so we can afford a healthy combination, or? Yesterday I had the joy of many surprises in the Lord. In a conversation it came up that shouldn't one believe that it is close to the return of Jesus? For if we imagine the time of John on Patmos. How would he have described the bomb and rocket attacks that are raining down not only in Israel but all over the globe today Rev 6:12-17 in this time. Wouldn't it be the same meteor shower we see in the news today? In real time? My words are not meant to scare. Just a reminder that time is short. And that now is the time to study calendars and times and seasons that are subject to God. He reveals His Word, right? We know that bombs have fallen from the sky before today. But to point out it is easy to see in John's eyes that, that is what he meant, but could not describe it partly because the bombs and rockets had not yet been invented. Have a blessed and glorious day with the Lord Jesus who has all power in Heaven and on Earth. We must first think that he saw in the spirit a revelation. Sorry Jesse, I don't mean to get ahead of your studies and exposition here. Amen
And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I."
When God 'tempted' Abraham 'and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am".(22.1) we have the Fellowship of God with man as set forth in the everlasting Covenant. He is called in his Son. There is none other. He called Samuel similarly and it was for His service. He called Jacob to empower him, "For I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee." We have the words of Elihu as well, " In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;/Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,"(Job.33.15-16) He opens the ears of faith, so when he wakes up he is not walking by sight but by faith. This is how God melds a nation of righteous me, children of the inheritance in light. Where there is no vision people perish. How can faithless and perverse generation whose catechism was administered by false shepherds, and the heresies and activism have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabbaoth. They are neither loyal to the country nor to God.
The Spirit narrated this visionof Jacob in the house of Laban, in particular so we shall understand the significance of the garden of Eden and of Adam and Eve. Similarly how Jacob did with 'the rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree' owe to the trees of righteousness written in the Covenant. The third day instructs it and it is in accordance with the dictum,'by him all things consist'. By the way the blind man in the Mark gospel looked up and saw men walking as trees. What are these 'angels'? Are they not trees of righteousness?"
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;/Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. (Rom.1.18-19) You and I included. If your faith is only in name, you alone are to blame.
I don't think it's just a poetic metaphor, but a call to a more demanding reality: that my actions should serve others, not just me. 1 Corinthians 12:22
There are members who are more visible and others who are more hidden. Not all stand out, but all are necessary. 1 Peter 4:13
To be part of the Body of Christ is to be used - not in the sense of wear and tear, but of purpose. It's knowing that even in modesty,
we can't all be eyes, nor all hands - and yet, as for His affliction for us to share in
I've been thinking that, if we really are the Body of Christ, then harmony lies not in equality of function, but in unity of heart.
It is precisely when each one faithfully fulfills their part - large or small, visible or not - that there is health and life among the members. 1 Corinthians 12:18
Being moderate doesn't mean being less useful;
Romans 12:4-5 - how beautiful it is to think that we are not alone - that we are part of something living, pulsating, eternal! Ephesians 4:16
To be part of the Body of Christ is to love without demanding a return, to serve even when the world doesn't see, to sing putting Him, our Jesus Christ, at the center. 1 Corinthians 12:25-26
Revelation 7:4 - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and it was 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel. There are several groups that claim to be part of the 144,000. But these are God's sealed servants which means that they are protected. It says right in the text that the 144,000 are from out of the tribes of the children, or sons of Israel. These are Jews, all 144,000 of them.
Revelation 7:12 - Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Saying, Amen, which means of a truth, of a certainty: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever, and notice that the word be is in italics in your bible.
It's actually a factual statement in the Greek text, (is) unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 8:11 - And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
And the name of the star is called Wormwood (APSINTHOS), which means bitter: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Revelation 6:6 - And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
A measure of wheat for a penny, which is a quart measure, a dry measure of wheat for a DENARIUS, one day's wage. And three measures of barley. Barley was the food of the poor. Barley was the food for the animals. And people would be able to afford three measures of barley instead of one measure of wheat for a DENARIUS.
And see you hurt not the oil and the wine. And this would be the consumption of those who are rich. The antichrist will have control over the world's food supplies, under the breaking of the third seal.
Revelation 6:8 - And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
And I looked, and behold a pale horse. This Greek word for pale, CHLOROS, is where we get our word chlorine from, pale horse. And the name of him that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth. So of the earth's population will die at the breaking of the fourth seal.
Revelation 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Just as a side note, and I think I've shared this before, but that little phrase "them that dwell upon the earth," it's actually a title. It's called the earth dwellers. All the people who are not Christians are called earth dwellers. As believers, we are citizens of heaven. And then there are the dwellers upon the earth. So, this crowd is saying "How long before you avenge the spilling of our blood?"
Revelation 6:2 - And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
For many years this was interpreted that this was the second coming of Jesus Christ, a white horse coming, the one who's sitting on it is given a crown, and he goes out to conquer, so it was thought to be Jesus Christ.
But this is not the second coming of Christ, but rather the representation of the antichrist, the false messiah who will come.
And here's the reasons why:
It says he comes on a white horse. It's the same as Jesus in Revelation Chapter 19. It's a white horse. But, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow. In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword.
A crown was also given to this one. And the word for crown in this verse is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS. In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing many crowns, and the word for crown is in Chapter 19 is DIADEM, the royal crown.
And this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system.
Also, another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until we get into Revelation Chapter 19.
So, this one riding on a white horse with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS, not a DIADEM. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said first would come.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb. The word stood is in the Perfect Tense. A Lamb had been standing, as it had been slain, the appearance of the Lamb.
The word slain doesn't mean killed. It means butchered or slaughtered. We're going to see the marks of crucifixion. In John Chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, you remember the invitation to Thomas who doubted the resurrection story, and Jesus invited him to come and put his finger in the prints in His hands, and to thrust his fist into His side, and to come and see that it is me.
So here we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. In Daniel Chapter 7, we see that horns represent power and authority. And of course, the eyes, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes ( Zechariah 3:9, 4:10). The word seven means complete. It means that He is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.
Revelation 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
So immediately, listen to this, I became in spirit:
That's how it literally reads. There's no definite article (the) with it. Immediately I became in spirit. So physically and geographically, he was still on the island of Patmos. But he was caught up in the spirit realm.
And he says behold, a throne was set, or placed in heaven, and one sat upon the throne. So that was the transition going from the seven messages to the seven churches. John is now transferred to heaven that he might see the things that God wants him to see.
Revelation 5:4 - And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
He says, and I wept much. The word wept is in the Imperfect Tense. It shows continuous action. He was weeping convulsively. He saw no hope, even in heaven, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the scroll, neither to look therein. So, he wept.