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Little is known of Jesus nefore his earthly ministry but there is one curious anecdote of Jesus among the elders discussing point of law. When his parents caught up with him he explained,"How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?/And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them." ( Lk 2.43-51) He was a man child though 12 years of age. His parents could not make sense but later in the real world the Jews would accuse him of being mad. The Pharisees accised him, "they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."(Mt.12.23) and he refers to his healing by the Spirit of God. It is what the Spirit informs us, 'The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' This stirring of water by the pool at Bethesda explains the nation of light,'for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." (Isa.66.8) This travailing we seen the vision of St John. As narrated by the Word which was God we see the devil as a red dragon,"and behold a great red dragon," and the adjective' 'great' is a clue; so are ten horns. The devil is already condemned under the law of sin anddeath. Seven heads establishes the entire deep over which darkness covers is under judgment.(Rev.12.2-3).
This explains the relevance of the 70 other disciples. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."( 1 Jn 3.8)
In the lighht of the above Gen.1.1 we have the Father Son relationship established. Zion brings forth and it is explained from the Word which was God. Rev.12 presents man child. The seventy disciples are prepared for the Advent of the Son of man. It is significant that Jesus sees, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.' It occurs on the return of disciples appointed for the Son. God decreed this day for his Son.(Ps.2.6-7)
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14:
This truth is exactly what the Apostle Paul is teaching in his second letter to the Thessalonians. In 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Paul declares that God has chosen His people "from the beginning unto salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." (v. 13-14). This means that the whole process of repentance, faith, and obedience is not something that originates in man, but it is the outworking of God's sovereign choice and the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit.
The evidences that God is already at work within that person. When God draws a sinner, He grants them both the will and the ability to repent and to believe. Paul emphasizes that salvation is by "belief of the truth," but that belief itself is a gift produced by the Spirit's sanctifying work.
Therefore, we understand that the New Resurrected Soul and the continual growth in grace are direct fulfillments of what Paul describes: being called by the Gospel so that we may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is entirely the work of God, from beginning to end, and it gives the believer assurance that what God has begun He will also complete.
"Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?"Isaiah asks this question which is answered adequately in another passage. " For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him."(64.4)
God has revealed to us in his Son so we have this curious line on which we shall examine the first five verses of Gen.ch.1. It can only made sense from the day one. I
To continue Isaiah asks," Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."
In short the Covenant in seven days Gen.ch 1.1 begins with two nations. Shall a nation be born at once is not a question but a perfect statement. In the beginning God willed two nations one of which is called Zion and for God it is in the 'now'. It is the day of salvation that God the Father ordained in his Son. 'As soon as she travailed she brought forth her children." The Man child explains the now of the divine Will.
Whence did this power come from? " Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth." This dew of thy youth refers to Word which was with God. God anointed the Man so he shall anoint whosoever heard or seen in faith and God has prepared, 'For since the beginning of the world. This is the Christ for whom his Father has settled his fulness. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre./Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."(Ps.45.6-7). It is explained in Jesus Christ the same today and forever.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation. When we understand that when God applies salvation to someones life they miraculously receive a New Resurrected Soul, a New Heart, that never wants to sin again. They have become a New Creation in Christ, Born Again. That repentance will begin to occur even as God is Drawing that individual, before God miraculously gives them a New Soul.
The question is, Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Even someone that never becomes saved can repent of sin. The alcoholic can turn from his alcoholism and not be on a path to salvation.
The repentance associated with Salvation is entirely a Work of God within that person.
The whole process of someone becoming saved and God's drawing them to the point where He actually applies salvation to their life in giving a New Soul is very mysterious. It all may occur in the Womb (John the Baptist) or in the last hour of our life (the thief on the Cross). But it is all a Work of God in the life of the person God is saving. We can take no credit whatsoever.
Once God has "saved" a person, there will be a continual growing in grace and an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to God's Law as expressed in the Bible.
This New Resurrected Soul which in itself cannot sin, must war against the lust of the Body that will not be "saved" until it is resurrected or raptured at the Last Day.
Wonderfully God in the person of the Holy Spirit is working within the saved individual and they have the assurance that God will never leave them nor forsake them as they find a hatred for sin in their life and are happiest when they are doing God's will as expressed in His Word.
I have not quoted any verses here, but this is my understanding of what the God is teaching us in His Word regarding the Nature of Salvation.
It seems the debate on this subject tends to overwhelm and that can at times be an unhealthy obsession that eliminates rational scriptural debates; and worse other subjects pertinent to today that need to be addressed. I'm not proposing to know all the answers here but praying that we won't unnecessarily lose attendees at this site because of the constant back and forth on this and other touchy subjects (such as Eschatology) that can cause so much division.
I will say that it is healthy when a concept is proposed and with rebuttals or comments where scriptures are quoted as that should always remain the primary focus here. Hopefully we can focus on what we have in common which seems to be lacking in such endeavors much of the time. First of all we should focus attention on God's attributes; we all agree He is omnipresent; omnipotent and omniscient and that He is unique compared to anything created. Man according to Psalm 139 was fearfully and wonderfully made; and indeed as Ezekiel points out we are not judged because of the sins of our fathers but our own righteousness or lack thereof. There actions are specified as identifiers of those who are godly; we see this in James as well. Clearly this isn't works righteousness but evidence of bearing spiritual fruit.
We also agree that when this life is ended there isn't any further state where we can change the eternal STATE of our souls; that deal as it were is sealed in this life. God is also fair; which in my mind eliminates children before a certain age of accountability.
Our sin nature guarantees with eternal souls eternal punishment if unsaved; at that point sin is no longer pleasurable.
Whatever our view we should plead others to flee to the cross.
If I may ask the same question to you that I asked of Mr. Spencer.
What is your understanding of God's FOREKNOWLEDGE and how that relates to Romans 3:10-18 relative to salvation?
If I may paraphrase, you seem to be saying that when God looked down the corridors of time He saw something uniquely inherent in you that He did not see in others who do not become saved. He saw that you, of your own free will, would accept the Salvation offered to you that others would reject. And that based on that foreknowledge, God chose to save you. But because He did not see that characteristic in others, that inclination, He chose not to save them.
Please correct me if I have stated your understanding incorrectly.
I would then ask; How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to you? Or does it not?
Fulness of God in bodily form makes Jesus as the Fulfilment of the Law. In rejecting him the nation condemned themselves. "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."( Jn 3.18-19) God had forewarned Moses and pointed to him. The Spirit of Christ is the angel that led the Israelites."Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him."(Exod.23.21). The temptation of Jesus explains who really their father was. ( Jn 8.44)The Pharisees tempted him, "Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk./And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians."(Mt.22.15-16)
The people who sat in darkness points out to the spirit that presided over the people. Jesus as the word become flesh would not be drawn into an empty debate but replies' for it is written' and here also we see the distinction made of his humanity and deity.(Mt.4.3-10)
The heavenly blessings under the Covenant was for Jesus to present to the world. So he refused to be made a king, a temptation nevertheless from the prince "When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone."( Jn 6.15). His Father's commandment was the Law, "or the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me .But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do."( Jn 14.30-31)
God separated the dry land from seas as he separated light from darkness. In stilling the boisterous wind he made manifest the spiritual significance of the seas. 'There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked." (Isa.57.20-21) Blessings of the Man under the covenant he made manifest. "for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
We shall examine the chapter from the role of Jesus as the Son of man. Fullness of God is not simply a term but made manifest by Jesus in his human likeness. As the word given a body he made manifest, " For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." As fulfilment of the Law he did not teach man to reject the Law of Moses. Instead having healed a leper on the sabbath ,"And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."( Lk. 5.15) 'A testimony unto them' was his fulness. It explains the significance of Sabbath. And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:/ Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."( Mk 2.27-28) Consistently we see this distinction between Jesus subject to the Word which was God as well as the Word which was with God.He saw the nation of Israel observing itas tradition of their fathers just as they rejected the king, that God had in mind so "Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;/That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles."(1 Sam.8.19-20). We see the same battles in our present day and they have their Barabbas to lead them, which is their tragedy. Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil and we see it from the earthly ministry of Jesus.
Gen.1.3 " And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
This light was a signal for the Son of man. "The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up./From that time Jesus began to preach,"(Mt.4.16-17) Notice the significance of the adjective, 'great'? The light condemned the nation, ( Jn 15.22) and he in his flesh made manifest 'I am the light of the world'.( Jn 9.5)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Ezekiel 36:24-31
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 2:1-6
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Revised.
If God only chose a few how can you be sure you're one of them being that it has nothing to do with faith or the foreknowledge of God?
Never mind those who reject God all together. We know their fate.
The bible has a lot to say about being deceived.
When examining Matthew 7:13-23 we see a call to enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Why are you told to follow the straight and narrow gate if you have not the ability to see it.
And how would you know you are not on the gate that leads to destruction?
Is it because your works?
Look at verses 21-23. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The scripture says "Ye shall know them by their fruits and God giving faith "The faith of Christ" is a fruit of the spirit and is given to believers by the Holyspirit being in them. This is baptism by the Holyspirit and it comes after one is saved.
John 7:37-39 sums it up. "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world by the foreknowledge of God.
John 3:16-21.
God bless.
There is a lot to consider here in Romans 10:13-18 concerning the Gospel and the recipients.
Paul calls it the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul says "their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world'.
Just in these 5 verses "13-18" you see there is an expectation to respond to a message you have heard that went throughout the world!
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter says" is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance here is turning to God!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case "for salvation" It is unbelief.
If repentance is required of everyone, the invitation and ability to receive is to everyone.
If God so love the world but only died for the elect and is going to cast the rest in hell that makes no sense and must be interpreted another way.
If Christ died for the whole world. And not just the chosen then opening the ears to a few to receive and leaving the rest blinded makes no sense and would also have to be interpreted another way.
Considering we have a Just God, and God is not a crooked Judge where he slips some out the back door to escape judgment and leave the rest of his creation behind to burn in the lake of fire forever goes against all that he is and against his word!
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Also, let's not forget that John 3:16-17 is addressed to THE WORLD, NOT TO HIS CHURCH!! "The called out ones"
See Part 3
8/26/25__
I am grateful for your reply to my Question on Revelations 20:12-15
earlier this month. You inspired me to study some more. I have learned a lot. Thank you for sharing that with us.
To God be the Glory and may he bless us all. Amen.
Part 1
There are those who doesn't think so. They believe that "BELIEVING' is an act of works.
However, throughout scripture it suggests otherwise.
John 5:40 And ye will not COME TO ME, that ye might have life.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him COME UNTO ME, and drink.
HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, COME. And let him that heareth say, COME. And let HIM THA ATHIRST COME. (AND WHOSOEVER WILL), let him take the water of life freely.
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
That if thou shalt CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH THE LORD JESUS, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:8-9
The invitation also went out to Israel!
BUT THEY HAVENOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord, WHO HATH BELIEVED OUR REPORT?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Romans 10:16-18.
It amazes me that some say God is done with Israel because they didn't respond to the call, but they say there is NO response necessary for the Church.
Paul answers that in Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
There is another group that believe that God only gave ears to hear to a few. "the elect" and the rest of those God loves is left to enter everlasting fire. Makes sense?
See part 2.
Amen brother,
God bless,
RLW.
"Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King."
Here we have a locus clasicus pertaing the same city in terms of the Law of the Spirit and in terms of the physical earth. Jesus in his humanity presented the gospel of his Father thus:"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:/ But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:/Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King."(Mt.5.33-35).
Here Jesus testifies the city as great because God settled his Throne in terms of His sovereign Will. By the same token what is Zion? it is chosen for his holy habitation. " For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation./ This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it."(Ps.132.13-14) The latter refers to the Covenant in seven days. Both agree in New Jerusalem.
The Law of the Spirit sets the rule "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." Zion refers to New Jerusalem. There is only one king,a cknowledged by the Father.(Ps.2.6). David is merely a double for his Son. God's words to Samuel with regards to the kings chosen by Israel merits condemnation. "for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them." Hence the adjective 'great' is set by the Law.(1 Sam.8.7)
I remain sufficiently vague here but the character limit here is sometimes not the most convenient way to conclude a thought (or perhaps we are to be our own zip drive). Ok enough said I'll zip my lip on that subject...
What I wanted to say in full on the final sentence in the last post was that the church needs not to be too focused on social issues but also not too removed from them either. There is no reason why we have to divorce the Gospel when focusing on issues; in light of Christ's clear emphasis of them on the Sermon on the Mount. The world needs to see us living out the truth of the Word and not just conveniently fitting the mold so that there is any justification to us being singled out as hypocrites or hateful people.
Maybe I should have titled this as one of Satan's strengths; as it seems we are all afraid to "offend" anyone. The Gospel is an offence as we read in 1 Peter 2:8 - "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." With this and other supporting scriptures let's dispel any lingering thoughts to the contrary. What offends people should NOT be abrasive speech; as that is not what brings us to the Lord but His love constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14). Love and concern for others can be associated with a certain moral compass even if few represent Him properly in this manner. So in one sense we should commit to going out of our way to help people with volunteer efforts; although impromptu ones or routine ones with our own personal contacts is likely to bear more fruit. But we can't let that be the end all. Being knowledgeable as to the agendas of a particular organization is best found in sites such as Charity Navigator. This situation takes wisdom as we can work with people in certain churches and organizations but not commit to membership; for instance.
Again keep Matthew 10:16 in mind.
I wasn't initially planning to go further; particularly into strongholds but this tough posting needs to be here (again that is what I sense the Lord is telling me). I usually can detect something needs to be said if I don't want to talk about it. Sometimes as in this case I need to hear it; and if it isn't helpful for anyone else here that is good; I have a lot to learn.
This is difficult on every level. How do we deal with the overload of everything that's going on in the world and not just clam up?
There are some scriptures such as later on in Amos that state that the wise stay silent in times of evil; and also others that state that the wise know the day of evil is coming and hide themselves. For this not to be a cop out however takes wisdom. Should we go out of our way to enter controversy; such as planned visits to certain clinics (I will leave out key words here). Should we aggresively plan to attend what I'll call "alternative lifestyle affirmation" events on the streets to evangelize?
Just finding the truth is admittedly hard today. I have brought this up with the major conflicts going on in the world.
Again; as with the last post things which the wicked world is engaged in today wouldn't have been conceived say 40 years ago to have developed into such anarchy; and perhaps more poignantly not address an obvious issue affecting society. Much of what i refer to here as the support for "alternative" lifestyles came from the "free love" concept of the 60's. There were elements of truth there; related to the overblown sense of American pride which led to a lowering of the value of the lives of enlisted men who by and large were following the drumbeat of patriotism which after World War 2 became unclear as to who the enemy was.
There was racial injustice and also to some extent equal pay issues for women of merit. The church primarily must promote the Gospel but has to have convictions.
Suppose I told you to pay me for something you already bought and then after the extortion you find out you don't actually own the item. Well I suppose corrupt telemarketers or internet schemes come up; but I am referring to Satan's dealings.
As we know from scripture God says that all souls are His ( Ezekiel 18:4). Encapsulated in that verse is the idea that any soul that sins will die so clearly Satan's offer to us to live forever is fraudulent; but I am still convinced that is tied in with the mark of the Beast if everyone takes it not written in the Book of Lile. As they say I digress...
Satan's bargaining chip is usually with those who are in the entertainment industry who arguably (although it sure is hard for me to tell with today's music) someone overnight is given some great talent or charisma to basically make a ton of money along with the worldly perks of such influence. Now of course Satan knows that a lost soul is already in his camp; but also that he is ultimately defeated. In order to propagate his deceptions he figures a person will make some sort of bargain. Many times of course he will appear to actually have someone's best interests in mind but that usually sours; particularly when the Lord gets through to someone. In truth not only does God decide who is saved or who isn't but also is the one who gives someone natural abilities and talents.
Satan only perverts that which God Himself has given as all good gifts come from above. ( James 1:17). Just as all converts to Christianity aren't genuine; not all those who seem to be on Satan's side are serious about serious study into the subject. Some for strange reasons seem to think it is worth it for temporary pleasure.
My point here is what I often emphasize; that we can't let the current state or outward appearance keep us from witnessing (especially with today's tatoos). And we can't assume the nicest person is saved.
Thinking outside the box as I tend to like to do means I have to choose my words carefully here. In general I'd say that Romans 5:20 is where I am going with this:
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
When we all came to faith in Christ; we were in fact sinners. Too often I think we focus on sin rather than the cause; our sin NATURE. I hate to capitalize and be obnoxious but some things warrant extra emphasis. Exploring this concept I'd actually add to it and say that in order to justify ourselves not only could this verse be taken out of context; but we indeed wish to retain our old nature as our main goal. Our actions may or many not be considered as to a particular sin but many would surprise themselves when asked months or years before a particular sin is made a habit or lifestyle if they were challenged as to just how wicked their heart is (again; focusing on Jeremiah 17:9). If we are truly His children He will either gently or severely buffet us. I don't know about anyone else here but I suspect we'd rather not get the roughshod treatment.
Anyway as to the original concept here those who are called by the Lord are reached above and beyond their own wickedness and the heart is pricked; the consciousness is stirred up. Jesus made atonement for all sin so that isn't an issue in Him reaching us. We should all consider this unique experience once we consider ourselves to be "seasoned veterans" in faith so we don't indeed lose salt and light and have our salvation experience be some dim past memory. I am convinced that our so called ordinary days are at least as much of importance as those when we are doing God's works such as evangelism or serving others in the Body. May we all put into the storehouse heavenly treasures more than earthly ones that fade away.
Maranatha.
This passage; perhaps shows how God spares some and affects others when a nation overall is wicked. It is in the midst of passages in much of the book of Amos describing God's judgments on Israel. We can say in general that idolatry and wickedness lead to catastrophic physical suffering; and this can be true if we worship false gods or we attempt to create a God or Christ that is according to our imaginations.
Our Deacon was explaining briefly a fairly well known concept of all major civilizations deteriorating after about 300 years; along with many of the sins we see today he used ancient Rome as an example. As I see it if we ARE Babylon then our destruction comes suddenly and is complete in the final part of the Great Tribulation; and if for some reason we're not; then we may go through longer judgments related to the seal judgments of war; famine and pestilence which is God's usual pattern of judgments. So I see three possibilities ahead:
1) The Rapture is indeed very soon; likely this year and we will not see too much happen between now and then
2) The Rapture is at least a few years away and some limited judgments may occur in the interim; OR
3) The Rapture; despite all indications to the contrary is more in line with the Jewish 6000 year calendar and therefore limited or possibly total destruction comes to America with a possibility of some restoration and improvement of things; or even some sort of revival coming.
Even with possibility #3 overall it would seem that sadly something much greater than what happened almost 25 years ago will have to occur for any substantial attitude change toward repentance nationally. Even that would still likely be short lived.
please read as
"The miracles are 'special' and it is how the Spirit points out the ministry of Paul under the everlasting gospel"
God curses Cain, "and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth." God was not off hand laying a curse but according to the Law of the Spirit. In the same manner Moses lays blessing and cursing before Israel in Deut. ch. 28. The Spirit uses terms like 'great' and 'vagabond to tie up the narrative so a diligent reader shall make a distinction between natural world and world framed by the word of God. Gospel preached by 12 disciples and everlasting gospel preached by 70 other disciples follow accordingly and it is sanctified by the Law of the Spirit.
The sun and the moon stood still which is recorded in the book of Jasher,- and it is not canonical for the blessed who have entered into the God's rest. (Josh.10.13) Two great lights shall not stop,' the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night.'(Gen.1.14). The book of Jasher is not for our instruction in righteousness. So interpretation must be by comparing spiritual with spiritual.
"Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth." Do not ' Christian sects similarly muddy the truth not by experience but by hearsay? They are vagabonds in their distortion of gospel.
The Spirit inserted this episode to justify the ministry of Paul. The Holy Spirit separated him for the gospel but historically he was not received as an apostle by the church of Corinth.(1 Cor.9.1-2). Jesus however validates him, He informs Ananaias," But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:/For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."( Acts 9,15-16). Great things he must suffer is used in the sense of great tribulation, as determined by the Law of the Spirit. So we have the Spirit, setting him apart'for the work whereunto I have called them.'(13.2)
"So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them" (19.11). The miracles are 'special' eterand it is how the Spirit points out the ministry of Paul under the everlasting gospel. Compare it with what miracles attributed to St Peter and other apostles, " Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them/ There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one."(5.15-16)
God establishes a Covenant under seven days where every blessing in heaven and earth are sanctified by the Man who was the Word which was God. He is the fulfillment of the Law, which is of the Spirit. , Names like Seth,Enoch Noah Abraham et all are designated as heirs of promise. They were placed under the Law of the Spirit. so Enoch shall walk with God and Abraham shall set out not knowing whither he went. Fath marked their DNA. On the other hand Cain was sent out from the presence of God. What is he called? "and a vagabond shalt thou be."
"Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?/And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief"
Here Jesus as the word become flesh set an example so the disciples may continue with their ministry effectively. Jesus in his prayer says," And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them." (Jn.17.10) Jesus as the Saviour of the whole world relies on the Word and it is God's work. This means that everlasting gospel holds only one name. God granted his name more excellent than all to be where all Kingdom building shall converge, past present and future." And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father " Everlasting gospel works with man and with the word so seventy other disciples complement the twelve.(Phi.2.9-11) God sent the word and healed them (Ps.107.20). Demonstration of it we see by the pool at Bethesda. In this the disciples lacked the key element, faith so they could not cast out the demons.
"Because of disbelief many refuse to enter the God's rest for whom no salvation is possible. How many have been denied because they base God's promise from Abraham and by doing so the entire spiritual landscape changes. It is with regards to these misguided believers the Spirit instructs us with the sons of Sceva at Ephesus. Why seven sons? It is the Law of the Spirit so everlasting Covenant is set as seven days and several references in multiples of seven. As with sects who bases God's promises from Abraham they know who Paul was. "We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth." The name of Jesus was correct. But the gospel which St Paul they know by hearsay. That was not based on the Law of the Spirit. This is how sects have vitiated the everlasting gospel. Gospel of the Father became Gospel of Christ and opened, "I am the way." Doctrine of Christ relies on whole or nothing. Promise of God is in his Son and 'After our likeness'. Nothing less
Yes. I deleted my two responses to your comment on Romans 9. I did this for two reasons.
First, I was not satisfied with the way that I was articulating my understanding of these passages and the Nature of Salvation itself. And second, because some of my responses to this thread have not appeared in the View All pages.
I confess that I find it very difficult to communicate my understanding in 2000 characters. It is also difficult to have a conversation with someone whose comments are posted immediately, since my posts are sometimes delayed for many hours.
That said, what you received in your email is an accurate expression of my understanding, not only of Romans 9, but of God's election and predestination which is an integral part of God's judgment and salvation program.
I don't think there's any question whatsoever that Romans 9 is dealing with salvation. I think that is crystal clear from the language and the context. I don't understand how someone might come to a conclusion other than that.
I think the doctrine of election as clearly taught in the Bible is one of the most hopeful and comforting doctrines in scripture. Because if it were not for God's elective program, no one would be saved.
This brings me to the subject of what kind of a gospel we are following, and placing our trust in. If we are trusting in a gospel that requires some action on our part, including exercise of our faith (our belief) to initiate or contribute to our salvation, we are trusting in a gospel of grace plus works, and are in grave danger. As a saved individual, "any good work" that we do is the RESULT of our salvation, never the CAUSE. That kind of a gospel refutes what God is clearly declaring in Romans 3 and other similar passages.
May God in his mercy lead us into truth, in accordance with his will and his timing, as we humbly search the scriptures using the hermeneutic that God declares in His Word.
Thank you for your dialogue, Chris, and may God richly bless you.
West Angeles Cogic Church Cathedral Los Angeles California
My COGIC WORSHIP: 1Corithians 15:3-4 KJV I Worship God that comes through for me to help others(fortitude). Verse 10 Paragraph 2 My Intrepretation: I Worship God that allows me to show myself as God not to suffer. Stands and faithfulness not to be a stumblingblock in another's way. Verse 12 Paragraph 2 I Worship LORD of hosts allows and myself on your own - heart and choices decisions.
Verse 13-14 13)Paragraph 1 I Worship God providing safety and security for those who truly repented.
Verse 14 Paragraph 2 My Interpetation I Worship God that allows me to retain the blessedness promised to me working with holy hands.